What is your personal philosophy as an "audiophile"?

[Archimago]

I was originally going to respond to the 24/192 discussion with this but
thought it more apt to start a new topic instead of tangential hijacking
:-)

I wonder if we've had a good / serious discussion here around the
question of what as "audiophiles" we're trying to accomplish with our
gear. No need for ridicule, but just a frank discussion of our thoughts
around why (some of us) spend so much time on this "obsession" :-)

As one more in the objectivist camp, I'm personally striving for
"accuracy" with reasonable specs which exceed my hearing capacity so I'm
pretty sure I'm "not missing anything" through the electronics. Once I
think this is achieved, I'm not really interested in owning the next
"upgrade" unless I'm pretty sure it brings something beneficial to the
table. Sure I'm interested in what's new and would happily join friends
in auditioning gear (even have thoughts of visiting RMAF this year), but
unless I really think it makes a difference, there's really no need to
own it. Likewise, intellectually if it really makes little sense, I am
by nature skeptical. On the software side, I like to obtain the best
mastering so enjoy picking up some MoFi, Audio Fidelity, old DCC's,
maybe the "first pressing" before remasters killed dynamics. As a point
of reference, I don't necessarily consider the "live music" as something
I strive to replicate (I listen to live music almost every week). I
expect the best I can do is replicate the "mic feed" as best I can in my
home which one cannot reasonably expect would sound exactly like the
live event (and that's assuming a 'direct-to-disk' recording without
fancy EQ and other studio effects). In fact, what I hear at home often
is better than my seat at the live event already. Before the widely used
term "audiophile", it was "high fidelity" which I think might be a
better term for what I'm striving for in playback.

On the other hand, I know many audiophiles want a euphonic sound. Tube
gear and vinyl lovers I think must follow this philosophy. I'm not sure
I understand that philosophy fully and what "point of reference" being
used in that situation.

Note that I'm not saying anything about one viewpoint being "superior";
rather just wanting to hear the viewpoints.


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[Julf]

Archimago wrote:
> Note that I'm not saying anything about one viewpoint being "superior";
> rather just wanting to hear the viewpoints.

Well, I don't really have anything to add to what you wrote - I am 100%
in agreement. But then I started out when it was "Hi-Fi" and not
"audiophoolery"....


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[Archimago]

Julf wrote:
> Well, I don't really have anything to add to what you wrote - I am 100%
> in agreement. But then I started out when it was "Hi-Fi" and not
> "audiophoolery"....

Wow... On old timer.

Did they use wax cylinders back then? ;-)


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[andy_c]

My philosophy is similar to that of "Mr. Smith" in
'*_this_1957_hi-fi_video_*' (http://archive.org/details/HowtoLis1957).


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[dyohn]

After decades of chasing audiophoolery, my personal philosophy is now to
relax and enjoy the music. It's not about "how it sounds" it's about
"Can you dig it? I knew that you could." :)


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[garym]

dyohn wrote:
> After decades of chasing audiophoolery, my personal philosophy is now to
> relax and enjoy the music. It's not about "how it sounds" it's about
> "Can you dig it? I knew that you could." :)

I very much agree with this "enjoy the music" approach. With regard to
all things audiophile (which I don't actually chase very hard), I'm a
skeptic and expect objective, reproducible evidence to document benefits
(or costs) of various things in the music chain (from the source to my
ears).


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[Archimago]

andy_c wrote:
> My philosophy is similar to that of "Mr. Smith" in
> '*_this_1957_hi-fi_video_*' (http://archive.org/details/HowtoLis1957).

Thanks for the video, Andy! Fantastic :-) Just watching it right now.

By hearing them use the term "high fidelity" rather than generic terms
like "audiophile quality" makes the discussion seem more meaningful to
me.


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[andy_c]

Archimago wrote:
> Thanks for the video, Andy! Fantastic :-) Just watching it right now.
>
> By hearing them use the term "high fidelity" rather than generic terms
> like "audiophile quality" makes the discussion seem more meaningful to
> me.

My favorite part is the studio scene at 1:03. "...and through the
remarkable achievement of modern electronic recording...", then they
show this antique stuff with "Ozzie and Harriet"-looking guys operating
it. Love it! :-)


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[SoftwireEngineer]

I think I am in the 'hi-fidelity' camp on this. Yes, the term audiophile
has become associated with 'euphonics', over a period of time. I do
think though that vinyl lovers do not necessarily fall under that
euphonic category. I have a MMF-5 turntable and I feel it is one of the
most transparent sounding sources I have had. It is very difficult to
get that kind of transparency from digital. I think it is mostly related
to actually recreating the sound physically (you can hear the sound when
you are close when the amp is off) and just picking it up and amplifying
it - more like a mic feed. Some say, it is not a accurate reproduction,
but if you take a same analog recording - one cut to LP and another
sampled, I think you might prefer the LP, for a reasonably priced
system.
Similarly, some feel that 'solid-state' does not truly recreate the
waveforms like tubes and have a preference for the thermionic emission
of the tubes. Apparently, any distortion the tubes create is
harmonically related and is not damaging. After a while, people just
start preferring the distortion itself and go after 'euphonic
colorations' in their system.
In my case, I have the 'listen from another room test'. Can I tell what
is playing outside, another room is a real instrument or not ? For eg, I
hear somebody playing the drums in a distant home, when I am going for a
jog. No mistaking a real direct sound. Of course, it is difficult to
recreate that with audio equipment, different musical instruments
product different frequencies, but a speaker has to produce them all (of
course, you have woofer, tweeter etc still).
I think everything in the chain in a stereo system contributes/affects
the sound. I like to keep it to a minium. I ran with my Panasonic
digital amplifier for quite some time and then 'upgraded' to the TACT.
For others, who like to use DAC/amp, I suggest going after a preamp-less
system if you can deal with the number of source. Many DACs now come
with preamp capabilities (source selection, volume control) and while
doing doing AD, it can also do the volume adjustments and hence reduce
one component/connection in the chain.


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[Archimago]

SoftwireEngineer wrote:
> I think I am in the 'hi-fidelity' camp on this. Yes, the term audiophile
> has become associated with 'euphonics', over a period of time. I do
> think though that vinyl lovers do not necessarily fall under that
> euphonic category. I have a MMF-5 turntable and I feel it is one of the
> most transparent sounding sources I have had. It is very difficult to
> get that kind of transparency from digital. I think it is mostly related
> to actually recreating the sound physically (you can hear the sound when
> you are close when the amp is off) and just picking it up and amplifying
> it - more like a mic feed. Some say, it is not a accurate reproduction,
> but if you take a same analog recording - one cut to LP and another
> sampled, I think you might prefer the LP, for a reasonably priced
> system.
> Similarly, some feel that 'solid-state' does not truly recreate the
> waveforms like tubes and have a preference for the thermionic emission
> of the tubes. Apparently, any distortion the tubes create is
> harmonically related and is not damaging. After a while, people just
> start preferring the distortion itself and go after 'euphonic
> colorations' in their system.
> In my case, I have the 'listen from another room test'. Can I tell what
> is playing outside, another room is a real instrument or not ? For eg, I
> hear somebody playing the drums in a distant home, when I am going for a
> jog. No mistaking a real direct sound. Of course, it is difficult to
> recreate that with audio equipment, different musical instruments
> product different frequencies, but a speaker has to produce them all (of
> course, you have woofer, tweeter etc still).
> I think everything in the chain in a stereo system contributes/affects
> the sound. I like to keep it to a minimum. I ran with my Panasonic
> digital amplifier for quite some time and then 'upgraded' to the TACT.
> For others, who like to use DAC/amp, I suggest going after a preamp-less
> system if you can deal with the number of source. Many DACs now come
> with preamp capabilities (source selection, volume control) and while
> doing doing DA, it can also do the volume adjustments and hence reduce
> one component/connection in the chain.

Thanks for the comments SoftwireEng.

Good comments about the vinyl. Although I personally have not bought any
vinyl since about 1987, I can certainly appreciate how good it sounds
when I'm visiting a high-end vinyl room. To be honest, I don't know if
I've ever been able to say it sounds that different from a well mastered
CD/high-res though... I know vinyl lovers have often said the sound
quality is hard (impossible?) to achieve with digital but I've not been
convinced of this yet (maybe I haven't heard a good enough setup). I
tend to be easily annoyed by surface noise, clicks, pops, static. I also
remember being annoyed when I used to buy new albums and finding little
scratches and warping upon opening the package :-(

As an aside, I think vinyl needle drops can sound fantastic! For
digital releases which are poorly produced like Red Hot Chili Peppers'
"Stadium Arcadium" (thanks to Vlado Meller - master of volume knob at
'11'), the vinyl version is the only one to bother with.


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[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote:
> Thanks for the comments SoftwireEng.
>
> Good comments about the vinyl. Although I personally have not bought any
> vinyl since about 1987, I can certainly appreciate how good it sounds
> when I'm visiting a high-end vinyl room. To be honest, I don't know if
> I've ever been able to say it sounds that different from a well mastered
> CD/high-res though... I know vinyl lovers have often said the sound
> quality is hard (impossible?) to achieve with digital but I've not been
> convinced of this yet (maybe I haven't heard a good enough setup). I
> tend to be easily annoyed by surface noise, clicks, pops, static. I also
> remember being annoyed when I used to buy new albums and finding little
> scratches and warping upon opening the package :-(
>
> As an aside, I think vinyl needle drops can sound fantastic! For
> digital releases which are poorly produced like Red Hot Chili Peppers'
> "Stadium Arcadium" (thanks to Vlado Meller - master of volume knob at
> '11'), the vinyl version is the only one to bother with.

+1

Vinyl is place where how things really work crashes with what they
really do with the system . I was a vinyl diehard longer than 1987 like
1992 or something for a confused mush of reasons , nostalgia euphonics ?
I can't really tell nowadays as I thought profoundly different about
audio back then and was obviously biased in what I " heard " I was
clearly in the audiophool camp when I was younger and I believed the
audio magazines thou they could never really explain why "vinyl is
better" ( you simply can't because it is not true ,as simple as that )
.

So technically it is very broken , already at the cutting lathe the cut
vinyl master do not sound as the master it was cut from and you can't
fix that even with a rockport turntable or Linn or what ever . So it
can't be close to transparent even early digital could do that. So my
earlier vinyl affection I actually ascribe in part to some kind of bias
and part to some very bad early cd masters and frankly my beloved vinyl
centric hifi was not good enough it had some quirks that where lessened
with vinyl .

But with people like Vlade Meller in action , you have two loose ends
good old euphonic vinyl and truly f****d up CD mastering usually not
even from the same source, when audiophiles and music interested people
tries to asses this mess ,they ( and I when I was younger) fail to see
how significant the root causes for the situation is and how little of
you actually can " fix " with whatever you do with your hifi .
It can be somewhat disheartening to even think in these term if you are
very emotionall about how you aproach hifi.

My emotional focus is nowadays on the music I do love nice hifi
equipment but I don't anthropomorphize my hifi to be something it is not
,it's not musical in itself the musicians are , so I won't ascribe
mystical attributes to the mere tools I use to enjoy the material
anymoore .


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[SoftwireEngineer]

@Archimago and Mynb - I have not bought much vinyl in recent years
either. Also, right now, my turntable is packed up. My kids damaged the
stylus and I dont want to replace it till my kids grow up a bit. (they
are fascinated by mechanical things and will surely mess it up). That
said, I have to say, IMHO, digital sounds veiled, atleast my digital
compared to my vinyl, in my setup. I did mention it may not be accurate.
But to me it sounds more 'real' than my SBT in my setup. No, I am not
into euphonics, I just want it to sound like real instruments, the tone
and dynamics. That is the reason I am still messing with my SBT. I may
break down and get a Linux computer and a asynchronous USB converter
eventually.


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[Archimago]

SoftwireEngineer wrote:
> @Archimago and Mynb - I have not bought much vinyl in recent years
> either. Of course, the surface noise is bothersome too. Also, right now,
> my turntable is packed up. My kids damaged the stylus and I dont want to
> replace it till my kids grow up a bit.

We're in the same boat... TT stylus busted on my old Sony (PS-X7 I
think) from the 80's which my dad bought for me. It's been idle since
the early 1990's when I did an AB comparison with my first CD changer. I
actually could not remember which I thought "won" but I remember doing
the extensive cleaning of the old vinyl and realized I did not want to
pick up that habit again :-)


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[ralphpnj]

Interesting thread filled with very worthwhile posts! Hopefully this
post will be up to these high standards!

Thanks Andy for the link to that most amusing video. Is that the same
Mr. Smith from the Matrix movies because they sure do look very
similar.

I have a fairly good vinyl rig (one of those Linns that Mnyb mentioned)
and about 2,000 LPs since I didn't sell off my vinyl when CDs were
introduced. For whatever reason I still feel that vinyl playback, i.e.
analog, has better bass than digital. Also there ae times when I'm
listening to a record that I think what was so wrong with vinyl that
they had to introduce CD and then I remember that CDs were introduced to
replace cassettes which had overtaken LP sales back in the early 1980s.
I guess the record companies though that since CDs were not recordable
that CDs would cut down on all the copying that was going on with
cassettes back then. Little did they know what a monster they unleashed.
Anyway there are times that good old vinyl can sound fantastic. I kind
of view analog and digital like this: analog is a great recording and
playback medium but a really bad storage medium whereas digital is a
very good recording and playback medium and an excellent storage medium.
In other words each one has its pluses and minuses.

My audiophile journey has been a long one which started over 30 years
ago. Like Mnyb and Gary I too went through my audiophool stage and as a
result I had some over priced wires and cables in my system but I also
have, like many other forum members, a stereo system which has almost no
"mass market" equipment in it. I all too often bash the high end audio
magazines but I have to admit that most high end audio equipment sounds
much better than most mass market equipment. For example the Sony
soundbar that I have in the guest room is noticeably inferior to almost
all my other equipment. Sure it plays music but the soundbar is like a
cheap pair of earbuds while my main stereo is like a top of the line
pair of Sennheiser headphones.

My current audiophile philosophy can be summed up as if I "think" I hear
a difference rather than "know" I hear a difference then the whatever
difference there may in fact be it just isn't all that much. Change an
interconnect cable, oh I think I hear a difference. Blow a mid-range
driver, man I know I hear a difference.

And finally I'll take a standard resolution 1940's mono recording of
Billie Holiday over a high resolution recording of almost any modern day
singer anytime!


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[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Interesting thread filled with very worthwhile posts! Hopefully this
> post will be up to these high standards!
>
> Thanks Andy for the link to that most amusing video. Is that the same
> Mr. Smith from the Matrix movies because they sure do look very
> similar.
>
> I have a fairly good vinyl rig (one of those Linns that Mnyb mentioned)
> and about 2,000 LPs since I didn't sell off my vinyl when CDs were
> introduced. For whatever reason I still feel that vinyl playback, i.e.
> analog, has better bass than digital. Also there ae times when I'm
> listening to a record that I think what was so wrong with vinyl that
> they had to introduce CD and then I remember that CDs were introduced to
> replace cassettes which had overtaken LP sales back in the early 1980s.
> I guess the record companies though that since CDs were not recordable
> that CDs would cut down on all the copying that was going on with
> cassettes back then. Little did they know what a monster they unleashed.
> Anyway there are times that good old vinyl can sound fantastic. I kind
> of view analog and digital like this: analog is a great recording and
> playback medium but a really bad storage medium whereas digital is a
> very good recording and playback medium and an excellent storage medium.
> In other words each one has its pluses and minuses.
> ...
>

Thanks for sharing Ralph. Didn't know you had such an extensive LP
collection!

Curious have you tried some LP needle drops through your gear?
Wondering if you ever thought that the analog "better bass" was
something inherent in the playback system or just the difference in
mastering. By essentially all objective metrics (except maybe frequency
extension), CD trumps vinyl as far as I can tell. This should include
(and maybe especially!) bass as well. Do you feel there is "something"
about the sound itself that vinyl produces which cannot somehow be
exactly replicated by the CD medium (lets forget about hi-res for now)?
Ultimately for the vinylphiles this seems to be the intangible
"something" that they identify as special about the system.


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[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote:
> the intangible "something" that they identify as special about the
> system.

Philosophically some audiophiles have finally come to terms with this
and do extensive "ripping" of cherished vinyl .you can have your cake
and eat it too as many times as you like , realising that this "
something " is the mastering pressing and playing back of vinyl and that
it is fully captured by a digital recording .
A subset of those have even realised that 16/44.1 is more than enough to
capture that " something ". This is still somewhat thought as a heresy
by those why share these needle drops on the net .
I think "they"( sorry for,the lack,of a good source ) proved this
already in the 90's with cd recorders if anyone remember those .

In practice I would use 24 bit during the recording session to get
sufficient headroom for click pop and rumble and maybe downsample after
eventual,post processing and normalisation .

The missing part is the tactile experience of placing the record on the
platter brush of the dust and sink the needle on to a track. Any one
remember the hunt EDA carbon fibre brush ?. A couple of friends of mine
throw a party with this theme , they collected all the vinyls in the
group and found a somewhat working record player and these folks are not
audiophiles !

This is a journey for a vinylphile especially to philosophically accept
16/44.1 which is the evil CD :) and getting the wider picture that the
playback media is almost insignificant compared to the base qualities of
the recording and mastering itself . The media is just a carrier of the
information some media is not entirely transparent like Vinyl and
cassete tape and low rate mp3 but sometimes the options are limited.

Also I think the sound engineer comunity had a learning curve with thier
new toys too , specially that there is no added " secret sauce " when
the consumer plays it at home no added warmth it has to be in the
production . They did and sadly realised that things that where
impossible on vinyl could go on a digital media ( groove width speed and
riaa curve is adapted to fit music with " normal " spectral content on
the LP ) and started overloading the CD master with more HF content and
finally the uber compression fad .


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[darrenyeats]

This is a matter of taste, I think.

Those who value accuracy, get a kick out of hearing the heterogeneity in
recordings and perhaps have less of a problem ignoring bad sound quality
in their favourite music. More left brain types.

Those who value subjectively good sound, get a kick out of hearing
instruments and voices as they sound to them in real life. Valve amps
have a curious effect on me in this regard, although I know they are
technically inferior they can certainly make an indifferent recording
sound a lot more reminiscent of the real thing. More right brain types.

I've tried some recording at home lately, this confirmed that creating a
recording that is accurate to what it going into the mic (I have access
to a good mic) and yet still sounding like what you hear right there as
a human isn't really straightforward. In the end, this is why valve mic
preamps are used etc...they warm up things and get it a little nearer to
what the ears hear.
Darren


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[Julf]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Those who value accuracy, get a kick out of hearing the heterogeneity in
> recordings and perhaps have less of a problem ignoring bad sound quality
> in their favourite music. "The truth shall set you free." More left
> brain types.

That sounds like me :)

To me the question is really about reproducing the recorded sound as it
is, warts and all - because the warts are there in the recording.
Smoothing over them to make things sound more like "real instruments"
is, to me, the same as trying to smooth over a wrong note that the
artist makes. I don't want to have everything autotuned...


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[ralphpnj]

Julf wrote:
> I don't want to have everything autotuned...

No Super Bowl halftime shows for you.


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[Julf]

ralphpnj wrote:
> No Super Bowl halftime shows for you.

I am OK with that :)


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[garym]

ralphpnj wrote:
> No Super Bowl halftime shows for you.

Or Presidential inaugurations ...


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[ralphpnj]

garym wrote:
> Or Presidential inaugurations ...

Halftime = autotune

Inauguration = lip synch

Similar but not the same.


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[SoftwireEngineer]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Halftime = autotune
>
> Inauguration = lip sync
>
> Similar but not the same.

:-)

I like to hear exactly what is in the recording as well. Tubes seem to
take the leading edge out of recordings. This is not good, especially
for rock.
Even though I amplify the analog playback also digitally, I dont think I
will get the same sound digitizing them. I think, the major difference
in analog and digital, is in the way the source signal is created
(electro-magnetic vs solid-state etc). And I think amplification
technology is less important. This is just a guess, dont ask me for any
theoretical proof.
If at all, I move to an analog amp, I would try different DACs with
different ways of digital-analog conversion.


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[garym]

Vinyl fans rejoice! one can always create vinyl from their digital
files. ;-)

http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/21/3d-printed-record/


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[chill]

garym wrote:
> Vinyl fans rejoice! one can always create vinyl from their digital
> files. ;-)
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/21/3d-printed-record/

> Skip the needle past the break for a lo-fi (or is it "warmer") demo

Love it!


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[ralphpnj]

Archimago wrote:
> Thanks for sharing Ralph. Didn't know you had such an extensive LP
> collection!
>
> Curious have you tried some LP needle drops through your gear?
> Wondering if you ever thought that the analog "better bass" was
> something inherent in the playback system or just the difference in
> mastering. By essentially all objective metrics (except maybe frequency
> extension), CD trumps vinyl as far as I can tell. This should include
> (and maybe especially!) bass as well. Do you feel there is "something"
> about the sound itself that vinyl produces which cannot somehow be
> exactly replicated by the CD medium (lets forget about hi-res for now)?
> Ultimately for the vinylphiles this seems to be the intangible
> "something" that they identify as special about the system.

The main reason I did not sell off my vinyl is because I bought a used
Linn LP12 in the early days of CDs and never felt that there was enough
of improvement to justify replacing the LPs with CDs. Of course things
are a little different now with the Transporter and the ease of
listening to streamed music but I digress.

So to answer your question no I have not made any needle drops mainly
because just as we are all concerned about the quality of the DAC used
during playback we should also be concerned about the quality of the ADC
when doing a needle drop. Quite frankly the only ADC I would have access
to when doing a needle drop is the one in my HP laptop and I don't think
the quality of that ADC merits all the work needed when doing a proper
needle drop. And I'm not about to buy a professional quality ADC just so
I can do needle drops on a couple of dozen recordings where the drops
might sound all much better than the CD or where the LP is not available
digitally since I can always play the LP when I feel the need to hear
it.


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[andy_c]

ralphpnj wrote:
>
> Thanks Andy for the link to that most amusing video. Is that the same
> Mr. Smith from the Matrix movies because they sure do look very similar.

Somebody posted that to the Stereophile forum a few years back, and I
enjoyed it very much. I haven't seen The Matrix, but I probably should.
I've heard great things about it.

I guess I'd better post something on-topic. :)

My audio philosophy is to get maximum "bang for buck" by avoiding
high-end audio equipment, and instead use a combination of pro audio,
consumer A/V and DIY equipment.
Source = SB Touch
Speakers = JBL LSR6332 pro monitors

I've become interested in the multiple subwoofer technique advocated by
Earl Geddes and others. You can find out more about the multi-sub
technique from '*_the_blog_of_poster_DS-21_*'
(http://seriousaudioblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/two-great-articles-on-multiple.html).
Current plans are to do DIY subs, with 4 drivers having individual
amplifier channels and different low-pass filters on each one.

Earl Geddes recently gave a talk on his technique to a Michigan audio
club. There's a PowerPoint presentation of it available at
'*http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/Optimal%20Bass%20Playback%20in%20Small%20Rooms.pptx*'
(http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/Optimal%20Bass%20Playback%20in%20Small%20Rooms.pptx).
There's really two versions of the Geddes technique. The first is as
described in the link to the blog of DS-21, and the second is as
described in the slide show, but the latter technique is unfortunately
only available to people who buy subs from him.

There's also a video of this presentation '*_here_*'
(http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/28637776/highlight/319149). It's almost
an hour long though. If you do watch it, be aware that they're having a
whole lot of technical problems with the video equipment at the
beginning of the video, but if you fast-forward to about 6:15, you'll
miss most of the problems but not any content. To me, the most
interesting part begins at about 31:00 into the video, where he starts
talking about what his software does. This software ends up making some
crazy-looking filters for the subs. You can see these in slide number
28 of the slide show if you don't watch the video. These filters can be
created using a Behringer DCX2496 or miniDSP (used only for the subs,
not the mains).

Being a software EE, it got me curious as to how such software might be
implemented. I'm going to have a crack at it sometime this year.


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[cdmackay]

Archimago wrote:
>
> I also remember being annoyed when I used to buy new albums and finding
> little scratches and warping upon opening the package :-(
>
> As an aside, I think vinyl needle drops can sound fantastic! For
> digital releases which are poorly produced like Red Hot Chili Peppers'
> "Stadium Arcadium" (thanks to Vlado Meller - master of volume knob at
> '11'), the vinyl version is the only one to bother with.

ho, this takes me back...

I remember in the 80s taking my vinyl copy of The Wall back to the shop
4 times because I couldn't get a copy without background noise in the
quiet passages on "Is There Anybody Out There?".

I bought a CD player that year (a very early Philips, CD304 I think) and
got the CD: perfect silence, bliss.

And now you tell me I have to back to vinyl for another album I like :)


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[Archimago]

cdmackay wrote:
> ho, this takes me back...
>
> I remember in the 80s taking my vinyl copy of The Wall back to the shop
> 4 times because I couldn't get a copy without background noise in the
> quiet passages on "Is There Anybody Out There?".
>
> I bought a CD player that year (a very early Philips, CD304 I think) and
> got the CD: perfect silence, bliss.
>
> And now you tell me I have to back to vinyl for another album I like :)

:-)

Speaking about Stadium Arcadium, the 4LP Steve Hoffman / Kevin Gray set
is without question the only decent mastering. It's times like this
where the desperate digital audiophile have no choice but obtain the
vinyl needle drops for the music server (DR12 vinyl vs. DR5 CD -
tragic!).

Here's an interesting thread...
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/249591/rhcp-stadium-arcadium-cd-lp-mastering-comparison


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[cdmackay]

Archimago wrote:
> :-)
>
> Speaking about Stadium Arcadium, the 4LP Steve Hoffman / Kevin Gray set
> is without question the only decent mastering. It's times like this
> where the desperate digital audiophile has no choice but obtain the
> vinyl needle drops for the music server (DR12 vinyl vs. DR5 CD -
> tragic!).
>
> Here's an interesting thread...
> http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/249591/rhcp-stadium-arcadium-cd-lp-mastering-comparison

thanks! Shame about the clips being replaced with some silly DoJ
banner...

whilst we're on the subject: are there any good websites where they
review issues like:

- LP versus CD mastering

- CD mastering across different re-releases, re-masters, etc

- SACD/DVDA/DSD versions: remastered, or just upsampled?

for particular titles, so we know whether it's worth buying something?

thanks again...


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[StridingEdge]

cdmackay wrote:
> thanks! Shame about the clips being replaced with some silly DoJ
> banner...
>
> whilst we're on the subject: are there any good websites where they
> review issues like:
>
> - LP versus CD mastering
>
> - CD mastering across different re-releases, re-masters, etc
>
> - SACD/DVDA/DSD versions: remastered, or just upsampled?
>
> for particular titles, so we know whether it's worth buying something?
>
> thanks again...For all that there's the Hoffman forum but, and it's a huge BUT, be
prepared for colossal levels of sycophancy towards the host and, as a
result, you will not get anything like unbiased opinions. In other
words, LP always beats CD for audio quality, early CD always beats later
CD issues and remastering sucks unless it's done by the host. If you can
see through all the brown-nosing and perpetuating of HI-Fi myths, at
least the matters you list above are discussed, often in infinitesimal
detail - it's just whether you can glean anything useful from the affair
:).


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[cdmackay]

StridingEdge wrote:
> For all that there's the Hoffman forum but, and it's a huge BUT, be
> prepared for colossal levels of sycophancy towards the host and, as a
> result, you will not get anything like unbiased opinions. In other
> words, LP always beats CD for audio quality, early CD always beats later
> CD issues and remastering sucks unless it's done by the host. If you can
> see through all the brown-nosing and perpetuating of HI-Fi myths, at
> least the matters you list above are discussed, often in infinitesimal
> detail - it's just whether you can glean anything useful from the affair
> :).

ok, thanks :)


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[Archimago]

StridingEdge wrote:
> For all that there's the Hoffman forum but, and it's a huge BUT, be
> prepared for colossal levels of sycophancy towards the host and, as a
> result, you will not get anything like unbiased opinions. In other
> words, LP always beats CD for audio quality, early CD always beats later
> CD issues and remastering sucks unless it's done by the host. If you can
> see through all the brown-nosing and perpetuating of HI-Fi myths, at
> least the matters you list above are discussed, often in infinitesimal
> detail - it's just whether you can glean anything useful from the affair
> :).

Yup.

Also check out the Computer Audiophile forum on "Music Analysis":
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f14-music-analysis-objective-and-subjective/

Some good discussion & analysis of albums like HDTracks stuff and
whether they're "true" hi-res.


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[Julf]

Archimago wrote:
> Also check out the Computer Audiophile forum on "Music Analysis":
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f14-music-analysis-objective-and-subjective/
>

As long as you stay away from other parts of Church of Audiophile, and
ignore some of the more insistent regulars :)


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[ralphpnj]

Julf wrote:
> As long as you stay away from other parts of Church of Audiophile, and
> ignore some of the more insistent regulars :)

I had not taken a peak over at Computer Audiophile in quite a while
until the site was mentioned in this thread. When Computer Audiophile
was first introduced I felt that the site was just a little too much in
awe of all things Apple but that bias now appears to have leveled off.
Some other things I noticed by just doing some random sampling of a few
active threads:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f14-music-analysis-objective-and-subjective/hd-tracks-michael-franti-and-spearhead-live-taos-nm-96-24-a-14214/
- lots of trashing of HDTracks. Hey I think I like this site!

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/audiophile-ethernet-cables-13798/
- a good mixture of believers and non-believers

And I also saw this review linked in the above thread:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-ethernet-cables - very
upsetting since Mr. Lavorgna now seems to have drank about 200 gallons
of very potent audiophile Kool-Aid. Too bad since in the early days of
Audiostream.com Lavorgna was one of the few reasonable writers in the
Stereophile stable. I guess one does not mess with the AudioQuest and
the other cable advertisers if one wants to keep one's job in the high
end press. Sad, very sad. But on the other hand the time is almost ripe
for me to begin marketing the Audiophile Air Purifier and Ion Alignment
Filtering System
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97950-MEASUREMENTS-Some-Squeezebox-numbers-to-consider&p=735951&viewfull=1#post735951)


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[andy_c]

ralphpnj wrote:
>
> And I also saw this review linked in the above thread:
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-ethernet-cables - very
> upsetting since Mr. Lavorgna now seems to have drank about 200 gallons
> of very potent audiophile Kool-Aid. Too bad since in the early days of
> Audiostream.com Lavorgna was one of the few reasonable writers in the
> Stereophile stable.[/url])

I've thought Lavorgna was on the fringe ever since reading
'_*this_article*_'
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/fragilesouls/fragilesouls.html).
Some discussion of the article at the Sterophile forum '_*here*_'
(http://www.stereophile.com/content/michael-lavorgna-subjectivists-vs-objectivists-1).


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[ralphpnj]

andy_c wrote:
> I've thought Lavorgna was on the fringe ever since reading
> '_*this_article*_'
> (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/fragilesouls/fragilesouls.html).
> Some discussion of the article at the Sterophile forum '_*here*_'
> (http://www.stereophile.com/content/michael-lavorgna-subjectivists-vs-objectivists-1).

Nice links bu the thread is rather long and just bit unfocused. I am and
have been a member of the Stereophile forum since the beginning but I
haven't been very active on that forum in the past year or so mainly
because so many of the people who post on that forum fall for all the
high end audio BS hook, line, sinker and wallet. While some of the
members here may lean a bit to the subjectivist camp at least everyone
here is on board with most of the basics of digital audio. If only that
were the case over Stereophile where little silver discs and their
players still rule.

Funny thing is I find vinyl lovers much less annoying than CD/SACD
lovers. If one is accept digital audio over analog then it seems to me
that the jump to streaming/hard drive based is digital audio is a much
smaller one than the one from analog to digital. And among the handful
of Stereophile forum who've made the jump to computer based audio many
of them appear to be struggling with getting their precious MiniMacs to
play high resolution downloads. Oh well I suppose it would be a lot to
expect more support for Squeexebox devices to come from the audiophile
press when Logitech barely supports their own devices.


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[satkinsn]

I know it's an old thread, but I just stumbled into it last night while
reading through Archimago's brilliantly done blog.

Looping back to the original question, my take.

Like a lot of people, I wasted way too much time on dubious audiophile
claims, though my particular weakness lies in the direction of "how
cheap can you go and still get hi-fi?" Also like a lot of folks, I've
come out the other end, chastened and realistic.

So...

- I'm 57 and have tinnitus.

- I don't have a lot of resources to pour into improving what I already
have.

- I have little choice as far as speaker placement or room environment.

- I only have so much time left on this earth, and can't really listen
to everyhing I already own, let alone everything that's out there.

The placement of my speakers, the room and my ears are obviously much,
much more important than the subtle/questionable/non differences from
DACs, cables and the like. So here's what I'm after: I want equipment
that plays acoustic jazz and pre-rock American Songbook-type singers
well, at low to moderate volumes. Also, a touch of blues and old country
and Bach. Also, streaming radio. In other words, nothing too demanding.
I want it to sound good, which to me means splitting the difference
between being accurate and treating the music gently, a la tubes.
Mostly, it means using what I have at hand.

I've simplified lately, and my main system is now a NAD C740 receiver,
which combined the C340 amp and C440 tuner under one roof; an Oppo
blu-ray player (a cheap one from a few years back); a SB3; PSB Alpha B1
speakers; a Roku box. I no longer use a separate DAC with the the Oppo
or SB - maybe I just don't own one that's good enough, but I couldn't
hear the difference between audio from the DAC or the analog outs from
either.

The SB3 is exclusively a radio tuner for me, and my big project needs to
be moving all the shiny spinning discs I think I'll want to hear over
the next 20 years to some sort of server - but I'm torn because of the
abundace of options: I ran Vortexbox for a year or so and liked it, but
thought the tagging was weak. I could run a Win 8 box with JRiver and
dbPowerAmp, both of which I own, but Windows is fussy. Or I could use a
Mac, but that means buying further into the Apple eco-system, maybe,
than I want. As a Linux guy, I'm inclined to go the V'box route and
build a player or two using a Pi or one of the other boards, but on the
other hand, I'm not sure I want to work that hard.

Meantime, I have a Boom on my nightstand and just got a used Duet for my
office. Squeezeboxes continue to delight me.

Scott A.
Watertown NY


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[aubuti]

satkinsn wrote:
> The SB3 is exclusively a radio tuner for me, and my big project needs to
> be moving all the shiny spinning discs I think I'll want to hear over
> the next 20 years to some sort of server - but I'm torn because of the
> abundace of options: I ran Vortexbox for a year or so and liked it, but
> thought the tagging was weak. I could run a Win 8 box with JRiver and
> dbPowerAmp, both of which I own, but Windows is fussy. Or I could use a
> Mac, but that means buying further into the Apple eco-system, maybe,
> than I want. As a Linux guy, I'm inclined to go the V'box route and
> build a player or two using a Pi or one of the other boards, but on the
> other hand, I'm not sure I want to work that hard.
If you don't like the tagging that comes with Vortexbox, but you're
comfortable with it as a music server, why not do your ripping and
initial tagging with dBpoweramp in Windows and then just serve it up
from another computer running Vortexbox? Imo, any fussiness of Windows
is completely over-ridden by the ease of ripping and getting the initial
tagging right using dBpoweramp. Then you can finetune your tags either
with mp3tag in Windows or puddletag in Linux.

Squeezeboxes will delight you more and more once you get those shiny
spinning discs on to a music server.


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[JimPro]

aubuti wrote:
> If you don't like the tagging that comes with Vortexbox, but you're
> comfortable with it as a music server, why not do your ripping and
> initial tagging with dBpoweramp in Windows and then just serve it up
> from another computer running Vortexbox? Imo, any fussiness of Windows
> is completely over-ridden by the ease of ripping and getting the initial
> tagging right using dBpoweramp. Then you can finetune your tags either
> with mp3tag in Windows or puddletag in Linux.
>
> Squeezeboxes will delight you more and more once you get those shiny
> spinning discs on to a music server.

I would second this approach, as I find Vortexbox to be a very stable
platform for streaming music to my SBT, as well as to my iphone using
Tonido. I also listen a lot to Spotify, using Triode's plugin in LMS on
the Vortexbox. But I do all my CD ripping with dBPoweramp on a windows
laptop, my tagging with MP3Tag, and then I copy files onto Vortexbox.
The workflow is straightforward and not demanding. And again, the
Vortexbox is a great platform.


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[satkinsn]

Well, I don't want to drag the thread too far afield, but let me ask you
guys (and whoever else wants to play) about workflow and V'box
hardware.

When I ran it I just grabbed an old Dell that was a 3 gig something or
the other (probably a P4) and let it chug away in the corner of my
rather noisy office. If I'm gonna do this at home it's got to be smaller
and quieter, without breaking the proverbial bank.

Also, if I'm going to use Windows to rip, I'd probably do it on my Win 8
laptop and use an external cd reader (I'm guessing I'd go through a
couple over the course of the project and there's no point in wrecking
the unit's internal drive) and...then what? Move everything over the
house network to the V'box? How do you keep your files and folders
organized?

Finally, if I'm going to the trouble of using a Win box to rip and tag
in the first place, is it really then sensible to move everything over
to V'box instead of leaving it on the Windows system and playing out
from there?

s.


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[mlsstl]

satkinsn wrote:
> Finally, if I'm going to the trouble of using a Win box to rip and tag
> in the first place, is it really then sensible to move everything over
> to V'box instead of leaving it on the Windows system and playing out
> from there?
>
> s.

I use a Vortexbox and am quite pleased with it. I don't rip on a Windows
PC but do rip on a separate Linux box. The reason is twofold.First, my
Vortexbox is in the basement and not convenient to physically access. It
is just easier to rip and process at my desktop.

Second, since all of the PCs are networked, it is very easy to simply
transfer new rips over the network to the Vortexbox. Plus, since I also
keep two external USB backups of my music, I'm frequently plugging the
drives in to update them. So, for me, moving the files around is really
no big deal since I'd be doing backups anyway.


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[Mnyb]

Your windows desktop/laptop may not be the most stable LMS environment ,
but a dedicated Linux server is and it's probably Ethernet to not wifi
as an laptop usually are . Beside you could be doing other demanding
task with your pc that would break streaming .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[aubuti]

For the server hardware, there are plenty of quiet, low energy
consumption x86 boxes available. I have one based on an Intel Atom CPU
-- it's not silent, because it has a fan, but it's quiet and it's
located well outside my listening areas. Running full tilt it draws 23w,
and using power management software to put it into suspend takes it down
to 2w when not serving music. It cost around $275 several years ago. Go
to newegg.com and search on barebones systems and look at the offerings
from Foxconn, Shuttle, and similar manufacturers. If you're not in the
US there is probably something similar where you are.

Moving files over the network as you rip batches of CDs is easy. A Win 8
laptop is often not the ideal system for serving music, because you're
rebooting for the weekly Windows security updates, or maybe you'll take
it somewhere, etc. As for ruining the internal drive, how many disks are
you talking about? I've done a few hundred on a laptop drive with no
signs of degradation of the drive. If you have thousands of CDs that
could be more problematic, so external CD drives start to make sense.

Of course, ripping and tagging is an investment of time, so make one or
more backup copies of your music library on USB external drive(s), and
keep at least one off-site, rotating it in for backups on a regular
basis.



Nothing high-end, but music anywhere I want it, and it's '100% wind
powered' (http://www.cleancurrents.com/). 'MSI single-core Atom
mini-desktop'
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032)
('Debian' (http://www.debian.org/) Squeeze 6.0.x) feeding: Living room:
'SB Touch'
(http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/index.html)
> 'NAD C325 BEE'
(http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-325BEE-Stereo-Integrated-Amplifier?products/hifi-amplifiers/C325BEE-Stereo-Integrated-Amplifier)
> 'Vandersteen 1' (http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/1clit.html);
Kitchen/Dining: 'SB2'
(http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20050428023747/http://www.slimdevices.com/)
> 'AudioSource Amp100'
(http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-2-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6)
> 2 pair of 'Polk RC60i'
(http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/rci/index.php?s=rc60i); Basement:
'SB2'
(http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20050428023747/http://www.slimdevices.com/)
> 'JVC JA-S44'
(http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204813) > 'ESS
Tempest LS8'
(http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/205237-ess_tempest_ls_8_speakers/);
Bedroom: 'SB Radio'
(http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-audio-receivers-dars/logitech-squeezebox-radio-black/4505-6470_7-33770452.html);
Study: 'Squeezelite local player'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97046-Announce-Squeezelite-a-small-headless-squeezeplay-emulator-for-linux-(alsa-only)&highlight=squeezelite)
> 'Klipsch ProMedia 2.0'
(http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-ultra-2-0-computer-speaker-system);
Backyard deck: 'SB Receiver'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Receiver) > 'AudioSource Amp100'
(http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-2-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6)
> 'Polk Atrium 45'
(http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/atrium/index.php#atrium45); Kid's
bedroom: 'Boom'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Squeezebox_Boom); Roaming
controllers: Retina iPad with Squeezepad & iPeng, iPod touch with iPeng,
3 'SB Duet Controllers'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Controller), various SB infrared
remotes, 'Nokia N800' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800); In the
bullpen (boxed up and ready to use if one of the above quits): 'SB3'
(http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20051210015952/http://slimdevices.com/)
and one more 'SB Receiver'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Receiver)
http://www.last.fm/user/aubuti/
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[RonM]

satkinsn wrote:
> Well, I don't want to drag the thread too far afield, but let me ask you
> guys (and whoever else wants to play) about workflow and V'box
> hardware.
>
> When I ran it I just grabbed an old Dell that was a 3 gig something or
> the other (probably a P4) and let it chug away in the corner of my
> rather noisy office. If I'm gonna do this at home it's got to be smaller
> and quieter, without breaking the proverbial bank.
>
> Also, if I'm going to use Windows to rip, I'd probably do it on my Win 8
> laptop and use an external cd reader (I'm guessing I'd go through a
> couple over the course of the project and there's no point in wrecking
> the unit's internal drive) and...then what? Move everything over the
> house network to the V'box? How do you keep your files and folders
> organized?
>
> Finally, if I'm going to the trouble of using a Win box to rip and tag
> in the first place, is it really then sensible to move everything over
> to V'box instead of leaving it on the Windows system and playing out
> from there?
>
> s.

As I've documented here before, I use a dedicated tiny PC as my music
server, on 24/7. It's a FitPC2, and is the size of a cigarette package
(they may no longer sell this particular one, but there are others at
www.fitpc.com). It's worked really well for me for three+ years, with
absolutely no technical problems. I bought it diskless and installed a
500gb drive with XP; just ran out of space and am upgrading to 1 TB. It
has no fan, uses the thick aluminum case as a heatsink, and is virtually
silent (aside from the hum of the drive).

I originally ripped all my music to my primary computer (using, I'm
ashamed to say, WMP), before moving all the music to the Fit. Almost
three years ago I converted to dBp for all ripping; I now rip using my
primary computer (I can always replace the drive if not the whole
computer, if necessary), and use the dBp multi-location capacity to
simultaneously rip flacs to my central archive (an external drive on my
primary computer) and to the Fit (across the network) and simultaneously
a 320 MP3 to a "compressed music" folder on my primary computer. This
latter serves as the source for any music I want to take on flash drives
to play in the car, or to give to my kids, or whatever.

I back up to another external drive more or less weekly, and
periodically to a small drive that fits in the safety deposit box at my
bank. So at any one time I have three copies of all the current music,
mainly flacs (on the Fit, the main archive and the additional external
backup), one copy in the bank's safety deposit box of the music current
as of the last time I did that backup, and one copy of all the music as
MP3s.

I'm not sure I could make a conceptual case for a Vortexbox -- the Fit
running ancient XP has worked very well.

R.


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[satkinsn]

Ron -

I like your answer, though I'm starting to get the point that moving to
file-based playback is neither cheap nor without considerable work.
Question: what do you use to play back from your fitpc? I assume some
variety of Squeezebox Server/Logitech Media Server/whatever it's
currently called.

s.


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[aubuti]

If cost is a big consideration then go ahead and use your Win8 laptop or
an old, re-purposed computer you may have lying around like you did
before. You already have the Squeezeboxes, right? So the financial cost
can be as low as zero.

Ripping and tagging CDs does take time. But once you start getting into
accessing your entire music library via a remote, playing your favorite
mixes of albums or tracks, you'll appreciate it.

There are services that will do ripping and tagging for you, but again,
at a cost.


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[RonM]

satkinsn wrote:
> Ron -
>
> I like your answer, though I'm starting to get the point that moving to
> file-based playback is neither cheap nor without considerable work.
> Question: what do you use to play back from your fitpc? I assume some
> variety of Squeezebox Server/Logitech Media Server/whatever it's
> currently called.
>
> s.

I use the current official release of LMS installed on the FitPC. The
Fit is networked via ethernet, and ultimate playback is via one or more
of a Transporter, a Duet and two Booms.

The initial ripping is the big work; maintenance work depends largely
on how much new music you obtain. The advantage of getting CDs is that
dBPoweramp automates the ripping to multiple locations; if I download
files (and I do get a lot of flacs), then I have to do an individual
conversion to the MP3 for my compressed set of music, and copy the file
to a couple of locations. It's not really a lot of work on an ongoing
basis.

The Fit costs about $340 diskless, which is not cheap but cheaper than a
laptop -- but you have to buy a hard drive, and do the work of
installing Windows, which can be an additional cost, not to mention a
major pain. Am currently in the midst of that pain.

R.

R.


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[ralphpnj]

satkinsn wrote:
> The SB3 is exclusively a radio tuner for me, and my big project needs to
> be moving all the shiny spinning discs I think I'll want to hear over
> the next 20 years to some sort of server - but I'm torn because of the
> abundace of options: I ran Vortexbox for a year or so and liked it, but
> thought the tagging was weak. I could run a Win 8 box with JRiver and
> dbPowerAmp, both of which I own, but Windows is fussy. Or I could use a
> Mac, but that means buying further into the Apple eco-system, maybe,
> than I want. As a Linux guy, I'm inclined to go the V'box route and
> build a player or two using a Pi or one of the other boards, but on the
> other hand, I'm not sure I want to work that hard.
>
> Meantime, I have a Boom on my nightstand and just got a used Duet for my
> office. Squeezeboxes continue to delight me.
>
> Scott A.
> Watertown NY

Lots of really good responses to your plan as outlined above. My 2
cents:

How many CDs are we talking about? The reason this is important is three
fold - first there is the question of hard drive space, second is the
question of a bullet proof backup paln and last is the question of
memory needed in whatever device you plan on using to host Squeezebox
Server/LMS.

Taken one by one.

A large music collection means a fair degree of work and planning must
go into setting up exactly how you organize your music library. For
example I have my music collection stored on two external hard drives
connected to an inexpensive computer running windows 7. Each "album" or
recording is placed in a separate folder (directory) belonging to a
master folder. The full file path looks something like this:

\\JAZZFAN-PC\DroboS Music Two\Jazz A\Arthur Blythe - Calling Card
(1993)\01 - As of Yet.flac

where JAZZFAN-PC is the name of the computer running SBS

DroboS Music Two is the hard drive

Jazz A is the master folder

Arthur Blythe - Calling Card (1993) is the album folder

01 - As of Yet.flac is the first track of the album

For back up I have two fully mirrored hard drives connected to a
different computer. I also use this computer to do my ripping (I use
dbPowerAmp for all ripping) and post ripping processing (tagging, cover
art, renaming, etc.) before a copying the finished rip to the computer
and hard drive running SBS. The bigger your music collection the more
important having and using a back up plan becomes since you do want to
rerip all your CDs should your main storage hard drive fail - and ALL
hard drives are going to fail at some point!!!!!!!

Last a large music collection increases the amount of memory SBS/LMS
needs and uses. For example for my large music collection Squeezebox
Server uses 353,000K of memory as reported by Windows Task Manager.

Hope this information is of some use to you as you make your decision.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[steveinaz]

Speakers, speakers, speakers; if they are not right---nothing else will
ever be. Firm believer in "point of diminishing returns" pretty is as
pretty does. It doesn't cost nearly as much as many believe, to be 95%
of the way "there" it just takes careful, sound decision making.

Did I mention SPEAKERS first?



- transport: squeezebox touch/channel island audio ps
- dac: benchmark dac/pre
- linestage: placette passive
- power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a
- speakers: harbeth compact 7es-3 monitor
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[Julf]

Archimago wrote:
> Did they use wax cylinders back then? ;-)

Worse. I remember all too well the failed 'Sony ELcaset'
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset)...


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[Mnyb]

Julf wrote:
> Worse. I remember all too well the failed 'Sony ELcaset'
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset)...

OT omg :) Sony does these things betamax ,video 8 and numerous pro video
formats ( u-matic , digit-beta ) and minidisc , they have an urge to
launch proprietary formats , how funny , but it was Phillips why tried
to launch the DCC to compete with minidisc :)


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[heisenberg]

Archimago wrote:
> I was originally going to respond to the 24/192 discussion with this but
> thought it more apt to start a new topic instead of tangential hijacking
> :-)
>
> I wonder if we've had a good / serious discussion here around the
> question of what as "audiophiles" we're trying to accomplish with our
> gear. No need for ridicule, but just a frank discussion of our thoughts
> around why (some of us) spend so much time on this "obsession" :-)
>

I'm going to offer a belated reply for sure, but the topic interests me,
for some reason. Assuming that by 'our gear' you are open to including
the music carriers (i.e. LPs, CDs, FLACs, etc.), I'd say that my
philosophy boils down to chasing after the best version of music
recordings I enjoy.

This obsession started early on, when I was into collecting LPs. I've
noticed that if you buy two identical copies of some LP, they don't
always necessarily sound the same. This prodded me towards hunting for
the best possible printing of the LPs I love.

Moving into digital world, I was under the impression that we have left
inconsistencies behind. But, much to my surprise, I found out that even
digital music differs in quality depending on which 'print' of the same
material we're talking about. For example, Japanese SHCD versions of
many familiar CDs sound way superior, to my ears. Hence I'm always on
the lookout to score me some of that sweet Japanese goodness (and my
goodness, can these babies get expensive!)

Finally, even with digital downloads (hi rez or otherwise) you can
detect different 'pressing' quality.

And so on, basically I'm much more into the sound/music carrier quality
than I'm into the actual hi fi music reproduction chain quality. I've
found out that a well pressed album, be it analog or digital, sounds
great on wide variety of hi fi systems (even if they be entry level
systems). While an album from a lousy batch sounds horrible even on the
most sublime hi fi systems.



Sent from some place.
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[Mnyb]

heisenberg wrote:
> I'm going to offer a belated reply for sure, but the topic interests me,
> for some reason. Assuming that by 'our gear' you are open to including
> the music carriers (i.e. LPs, CDs, FLACs, etc.), I'd say that my
> philosophy boils down to chasing after the best version of music
> recordings I enjoy.
>
> This obsession started early on, when I was into collecting LPs. I've
> noticed that if you buy two identical copies of some LP, they don't
> always necessarily sound the same. This prodded me towards hunting for
> the best possible printing of the LPs I love.
>
> Moving into digital world, I was under the impression that we have left
> inconsistencies behind. But, much to my surprise, I found out that even
> digital music differs in quality depending on which 'print' of the same
> material we're talking about. For example, Japanese SHCD versions of
> many familiar CDs sound way superior, to my ears. Hence I'm always on
> the lookout to score me some of that sweet Japanese goodness (and my
> goodness, can these babies get expensive!)
>
> Finally, even with digital downloads (hi rez or otherwise) you can
> detect different 'pressing' quality.
>
> And so on, basically I'm much more into the sound/music carrier quality
> than I'm into the actual hi fi music reproduction chain quality. I've
> found out that a well pressed album, be it analog or digital, sounds
> great on wide variety of hi fi systems (even if they be entry level
> systems). While an album from a lousy batch sounds horrible even on the
> most sublime hi fi systems.

This is usually more of a lousy mastering or *shudder* remaster in the
digital domain , you simply don’t know the pedigree of the files you buy
what kind of master did they digitise ? for the sake of discussion you
can pretty much assume the digitizing process transparent compared to
choice of the right source to begin win ? thats different fom vinyl
where the tooling wear out, or cassete :) downloadable files will be the
same forever . CD if they are different they are either broken (error
corection cant cope with them) or from a different master tape .
Now the sad part some old tapes did not fare well in storage or all
remasters are nutjobbs so you may end up digitizing your vinyl as an
extreme case .

In short the carrier is nowadays unimportant compared to actual quality
of the source used (mastering etc ) all lossless carriers from 16/44.1
via 24/96 to DoP are all better SQ than the recording they contains .
I with you there get the good recording regardless of format if
available in different formats just choose by practicalities I for
example consider everything above 24/96 complete overkill but i want a
lossles file .

One would be surprised how sloppy the recordings industry been over the
years you may be listening to some 3 generation backup copy !
What now revered as "modern classics" in 70's rock where just made for
the day way back ? I doubt no one figured it would be revered and
considered "serious art" so archiving could be hit and miss .
But as you chase different vinyl pressing you know this better than me .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[heisenberg]

Mnyb wrote:
> I with you there get the good recording regardless of format if
> available in different formats just choose by practicalities I for
> example consider everything above 24/96 complete overkill but i want a
> lossles file .

I was very saddened when I discovered that I can't reliably tell whether
the music playing is from a 320 kbps mp3 or from a lossless source.
Hence, I'm not into chasing after 24/192 -- like you've said, a complete
overkill.



Sent from some place.
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[castalla]

Nitpicking raised to the power 10!



Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers
Logitech Radio + remote
Logitech UE Smart Radio
Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite - Logitech Mini Boombox
speaker
Cubieboard + Fedora 18 + LMS 7.8 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100
bluetooth speaker
O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers
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[Mnyb]

heisenberg wrote:
> I was very saddened when I discovered that I can't reliably tell whether
> the music playing is from a 320 kbps mp3 or from a lossless source.
> Hence, I'm not into chasing after 24/192 -- like you've said, a complete
> overkill.

Don’t be that , it's just the limit of the ear brain system we all have
, there are wast gain in SQ to have if the record companies could stop
their loudness war for example

castalla wrote:
> Nitpicking raised to the power 10!

Yes ,but it was way worse in the past when I was a certified cargo cult
member with all bells and whistles or should I say cables, rhodium
plated spades anyone (and of course they sounded better ;) )

I turned into music more these days not buying the old stuff again not
even refried as DSD , I'm actually more on bandcamp trying out new
independent stuff .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Archimago]

heisenberg wrote:
> I was very saddened when I discovered that I can't reliably tell whether
> the music playing is from a 320 kbps mp3 or from a lossless source.
> Hence, I'm not into chasing after 24/192 -- like you've said, a complete
> overkill.

Like Mnyb said, do not be saddened by this. I have yet to find a single
person who I can verify as passing an ABX between 320kbps and lossless
WAV/FLAC when the music is encoded with a good encoder like a newer
version of LAME (I've tested about 10 "audiophiles" using combination of
headphones or speakers)... Looking at the audiophile sites, one gets the
impression as if this is some common feat! When I did the online MP3
test on my blog earlier this year, I know that some very outspoken
members of other forums got the result wrong so I know for a -fact -that
they're unjustifiably confident and just plain -wrong -about their self
assessment.

Of course this is not to say nobody can tell a difference, just that I
think it's extremely -rare-. Knowing this "fact" for oneself is a sign
of honesty and integrity IMO.

I agree, no need to chase after overkill. As I've expressed in the past,
I'm happy to have 24/96 as the limit of what I would bother to download
(even if I buy 24/192, it's almost always converted down to 24/96). At
24/96, there's really ZERO possible audio information missing for human
ears assuming one is even concerned about "brickwall" issues with 44kHz
sampling. As for DSD, I see it as an interesting "toy". I've written
about it including PCM --> DSD128 upsampling and I find it sounds
different, but the effect is like any DSP that can add some euphonia /
body to the sound IMO. Still can't get myself to honestly believe
there's anything special with DSD that cannot be captured with good
PCM.

I'm still unhappy about the DSD file format - useless old DSF & DFF -
poor tagging and compression capabilities; what a waste of storage.



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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[jimbobvfr400]

Archimago wrote:
> lots of good stuff

100% agree with everything you said there.

I did however have some older MP3 files (that I've since replaced with
FLAC) where I could tell an immediate difference, or at least I think I
could?

I really do think Lame has been improved quite a bit in the later
versions, either that or I was an idiot and couldn't use it properly.

I do think that the source and mastering or mixing techniques are way,
way more important to the final results than whatever format or bit rate
has been used, providing the format is "good enough"

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4




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[Archimago]

jimbobvfr400 wrote:
>
> I did however have some older MP3 files (that I've since replaced with
> FLAC) where I could tell an immediate difference, or at least I think I
> could?
>
> I really do think Lame has been improved quite a bit in the later
> versions, either that or I was an idiot and couldn't use it properly.
>

Exactly. I had some old stuff back in the day encoded with Xing MP3 in
320/256 and clearly the quality was inadequate. I suspect that many "old
timers" in audio may have built their impression based on these old
encoders or just listened to 128kbps and from then declared to everyone
just how inferior MP3 is.

The above would be a more diplomatic view. I suspect what's more
sinister is that of expectation bias that "tossing away bits *must*
result in bad sound!" and most people do not really test it out for
themselves. Even worse are folks like Neil Young who make ridiculous
statements about how MP3 "throws out" 80% of the data and other such
"objective" drivel apparently believing that his ears are somehow
golden. Maybe he can hear it, who knows... I wish I could place bets
against him doing it though ;)



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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[banned for life]

1. Massive wattage with unbridled amperage. (My LR speakers can dip
below 1 Ohm on the woofer side of the biamp.)
2. You cannot pay too much for a good tweeter.
3. Never underestimate a paper woofer. (SS 18W/8531G springs to mind.)
As a corollary: bass response is no longer pinned to driver size-- see
#5, though.
4. There are those who refuse to see (hear) reason when the speakers
really do need to be at least 3 feet from the rear wall. (For some
reason these people are often soft and curvy.)
5. There is no free lunch: There is a definite requirement for cabinet
volume.
6. Sub-woofers are for cars and apartments and may be OK in some
bedrooms.
7. Tube amps are great for making toast.
8. People who like/love Bose tend to be delusional in other aspects of
their lives.
9. Above a certain quality point (note I did not say price,) a LARGE
proportion of sound quality is room and placement. That said, the rest
of sound quality is between your ears.
10. Face it: a lot of source material is REALLY crappy.


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[ralphpnj]

banned for life wrote:
> 10. Face it: a lot of source material is REALLY crappy.

First Corollary: All source material associated with anyone or anything
from American Idol is absolutely 100% crap.

Second Corollary: 99% of source material from any of TAS founder HP so
called "Super Disc Lists" may sound good but musically it is absolutely
100% crap.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Mnyb]

About 3 cone area*linear travel is physics you don't get away from that
! so reasonable cone area ( can absolutely be more than one driver ,
that could be even better , more motors ) is worth something . Of course
in the boxes that the acoustics of the system require :) not what's
fashionable .

visible large cone movement produces distortion in any speaker
regardless of price ime .

I have subwoofer in apartment ,but with a low crossover freq and steep
filter and digital room acoustic compensation or it would not work very
well .

I know no way to get -0.5dB @ 20Hz at listening position without sub ,
there are not many reasonable full range system that does 20-20k and
fits in my room , heck there are not many reasonable such system in any
case .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[darrenyeats]

I've been critical of modern recordings on many occasions, and I still
am, but I've come to believe that most post 50s music should be
listenable on a well-sorted system. The flaws in recordings will be made
obvious, yes, but also the music should be able to be enjoyed at the
same time.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[jimbobvfr400]

heisenberg wrote:
> I was very saddened when I discovered that I can't reliably tell whether
> the music playing is from a 320 kbps mp3 or from a lossless source.
> Hence, I'm not into chasing after 24/192 -- like you've said, a complete
> overkill.

I wasn't saddened, I was impressed that the boffins behind the concepts
used in mp3 and other formats are so clever :-)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4




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[darrenyeats]

heisenberg wrote:
> I've found out that a well pressed album, be it analog or digital,
> sounds great on wide variety of hi fi systems (even if they be entry
> level systems). While an album from a lousy batch sounds horrible even
> on the most sublime hi fi systems.
So true!

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[Julf]

heisenberg wrote:
> Finally, even with digital downloads (hi rez or otherwise) you can
> detect different 'pressing' quality.

I am not sure about what you mean with "pressing" when talking about
digital files. The differences tend to be down to different EQ and
compressing choices.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[heisenberg]

Julf wrote:
> I am not sure about what you mean with "pressing" when talking about
> digital files. The differences tend to be down to different EQ and
> compressing choices.

I guess I was talking about the care engineers take when digitizing the
master tapes. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and different
teams will digitize the same master tape differently. That's what I
refer to as different 'pressings'.



Sent from some place.
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[Julf]

heisenberg wrote:
> I guess I was talking about the care engineers take when digitizing the
> master tapes. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and different
> teams will digitize the same master tape differently. That's what I
> refer to as different 'pressings'.

Thanks, that was a good clarification. Yes, different conversions from
analog master tape to digital will often sound different, as there are
lots of paremeters to play around with. Personally I can't really
justify using anything beyond 16/48 on material from an analog source.
If recording in digital, it makes sense to use higher resolutions at
least for the recording and processing stage.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Pneumonic]

Archimago wrote:
> I was originally going to respond to the 24/192 discussion with this but
> thought it more apt to start a new topic instead of tangential hijacking
> :-)
>
> I wonder if we've had a good / serious discussion here around the
> question of what as "audiophiles" we're trying to accomplish with our
> gear. No need for ridicule, but just a frank discussion of our thoughts
> around why (some of us) spend so much time on this "obsession" :-)
>
> As one more in the objectivist camp, I'm personally striving for
> "accuracy" with reasonable specs which exceed my hearing capacity so I'm
> pretty sure I'm "not missing anything" through the electronics. Once I
> think this is achieved, I'm not really interested in owning the next
> "upgrade" unless I'm pretty sure it brings something beneficial to the
> table. Sure I'm interested in what's new and would happily join friends
> in auditioning gear (even have thoughts of visiting RMAF this year), but
> unless I really think it makes a difference, there's really no need to
> own it. Likewise, intellectually if it really makes little sense, I am
> by nature skeptical. On the software side, I like to obtain the best
> mastering so enjoy picking up some MoFi, Audio Fidelity, old DCC's,
> maybe the "first pressing" before remasters killed dynamics. As a point
> of reference, I don't necessarily consider the "live music" as something
> I strive to replicate (I listen to live music almost every week). I
> expect the best I can do is replicate the "mic feed" as best I can in my
> home which one cannot reasonably expect would sound exactly like the
> live event (and that's assuming a 'direct-to-disk' recording without
> fancy EQ and other studio effects). In fact, what I hear at home often
> is better than my seat at the live event already. Before the widely used
> term "audiophile", it was "high fidelity" which I think might be a
> better term for what I'm striving for in playback.
>
> On the other hand, I know many audiophiles want a euphonic sound. Tube
> gear and vinyl lovers I think must follow this philosophy. I'm not sure
> I understand that philosophy fully and what "point of reference" being
> used in that situation.
>
> Note that I'm not saying anything about one viewpoint being "superior";
> rather just wanting to hear the viewpoints.

Given that not one of us has - identical systems, setup in the same
room, with the same music being played - any subjective comparison on
what any us can or can't hear lacks a true reference and is nothing more
than an exercise in futility as it is nothing more than a un-winnable "I
hear this, you hear that" battle.

In the absence of such reference many people use science, or maths, or
measurements as a reference point since it's the only way to bring into
the fold some element of objectivity which can be referenced by
everyone.

As for me. It boils down to this:

• If I can hear it, and measurements suggest I shouldn’t be able to hear
it, then I believe that what I hear may be real or imaginary but I side
with imaginary and wonder if I should go see my shrink.
• If I can hear it, and measurements agree that I should be able to hear
it, then I believe that what I hear is real and I grab another drink.
• If I can't hear it, and measurements suggest I should be able to hear
it, then I change up my system.
• If I can't hear it, and measurements suggest I shouldn’t be able to
hear it, then I grab another drink.



Main: Acer Aspire One netbook --> Squeezebox Transporter (slave mode)
--> Lessloss 2004 mkII Pre/DAC (master mode) --> Sanders Magtech
stereo/Innersound ESL800 mono power amps --> Sanders 10c active speakers
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[Archimago]

Pneumonic wrote:
> Given that not one of us has - identical systems, setup in the same
> room, with the same music being played - any subjective comparison on
> what any us can or can't hear lacks a true reference and is nothing more
> than an exercise in futility as it is nothing more than a un-winnable "I
> hear this, you hear that" battle.
>
> In the absence of such reference many people use science, or maths, or
> measurements as a reference point since it's the only way to bring into
> the fold some element of objectivity which can be referenced by
> everyone.
>
> As for me. It boils down to this:
>
> • If I can hear it, and measurements suggest I shouldn’t be able to hear
> it, then I believe that what I hear may be real or imaginary but I side
> with imaginary and wonder if I should go see my shrink.
> • If I can hear it, and measurements agree that I should be able to hear
> it, then I believe that what I hear is real and I grab another drink.
> • If I can't hear it, and measurements suggest I should be able to hear
> it, then I change up my system.
> • If I can't hear it, and measurements suggest I shouldn’t be able to
> hear it, then I grab another drink.

What the hell... Grab a drink anyways!
:cool:



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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[TheOctavist]

I have various ideas.

in my own playback , with digital system(s)...I strive for accuracy.
that is achieved, and has been possible for a long time. I Believe that
the room is the single most important factor in system performance. to
that end, my room is highly tuned, and has been to a large extent been
taken out of the equation.

now..when I fire up my analog gear(reel to reel, vinyl), I have(and do)
always enjoy playing with tube gear, "euphonic" speakers, etc. I am of
the mind that with vinyl, there is no hope for fidelity..so I have fun
with it.

when mixing, I have to tailor the final product to suit the client's
sensibilities. sometimes against my better judgement!



Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D

Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due
Venti>>Link Audio K100
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[Archimago]

Hey guys... Just thought I'd share what I'm "rocking" these days. Still
lots to do in the sound room - very bare walls and the rug's taking its
sweet time in arriving!

Nonetheless, lots of fun putting the pieces together and loving what's
coming out of my good 'ol Transporter.

Have a wonderful Holiday Season everyone... :o

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/12/musings-look-at-sound-room.html



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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[ralphpnj]

Archimago wrote:
> Hey guys... Just thought I'd share what I'm "rocking" these days. Still
> lots to do in the sound room - very bare walls and the rug's taking its
> sweet time in arriving!
>
> Nonetheless, lots of fun putting the pieces together and loving what's
> coming out of my good 'ol Transporter.
>
> Have a wonderful Holiday Season everyone... :o
>
> http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/12/musings-look-at-sound-room.html

Very nice blog post. Looks like your listening/viewing room, aka man
cave, is shaping up very nicely. Best of luck with your new home. And of
course Holiday wishes to you and yours as well.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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