S-Booster

[furonfour]

Through a tweet last weekend by one of the Squeezebox suppliers here in
the Netherlands, a new product was brought to my attention. I am by no
means an audiophile, nor an expert in electronics, so I am not sure
what to think of this exactly.

Forum searches did not turn up any hits, but my apologies if this has
been discussed before.

The "SBooster" - http://www.squeeze-upgrade.com/

The product line seems to be split in two main parts, a module or
SBooster that can be fitted between the default Squeezebox power supply
and the Squeezebox itself, and a combination of a (higher end?) power
supply with an SBooster unit. The products are being offered here for
about 40 and 135 Euros respectively. Both units seem to be available
for the Classic, Duet and Touch, as well as a few popular DACs.

Most of the site is in English. There is one review on the product in
Dutch which can be found 'here'
(http://www.alpha-audio.nl/2010/05/dream-sensations-betaalbare-droom/),
translated to English by Google 'here'
(http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpha-audio.nl%2F2010%2F05%2Fdream-sensations-betaalbare-droom%2F&sl=nl&tl=en).

If they work as advertised, I guess they would provide a plug-and-play
way to enhance a Squeezebox setup. The review does not provide any
measurements or details on the workings of the devices, which leaves me
kind of skeptical.

Any thoughts?


--
furonfour

'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/wostu) - Chaos is the mother of all
creation.
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[snarlydwarf]

furonfour;571565 Wrote:
>
> If they work as advertised, I guess they would provide a plug-and-play
> way to enhance a Squeezebox setup. The review does not provide any
> measurements or details on the workings of the devices, which leaves me
> kind of skeptical.
>
> Any thoughts?

snake oil, especially with the touch.


--
snarlydwarf
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[iPhone]

This stuff is great! NOT! It is only good at separating you from your
hard earned cash that is if you believe or are fooled by some slick web
pages and the out right fairly tales they are telling/claiming.

As Gary said, stay as far away as you can as quickly as you can.

Only one thing makes a Major worth paying for upgrade to the Touch,
replacing it with a Transporter or buying an expensive external DAC.

They use the word "Magical" in their BS ads, hide your cash, checks,
and credit cards. With the Sbooster switch-mode upgrade one still needs
to use the OEM switching PS yet somehow "the sound is deeper, the stress
disappears, the emotion comes back and the digital edge will be a thing
of the past forever." What a load of crap. The only thing they are good
at changing is the amount in ones checking account!

Buyer beware, the only change to your system will be the lightness in
ones wallet and a little less treble from your lowered seating
position.


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
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[slate]

Clearly someone has taken notes... They have seen Steve Jobs pendle his
merchandise using the "magical" word and thought that if he can sell
snakeoil at those prices... why cant we?!


--
slate

Main: Duet -> Beresford Caiman -> Carver A-500x -> B&W 704
Office: Duet -> Technics SU-V50 -> Stax SR84 Pro
Server: Zotac IONITX-A, 4 GB, 1 TB WD EADS, Win7 w. 7.6 (SQLite)
Tied together by D-Link DIR-655, DGS-1008D
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[ralphpnj]

slate;571619 Wrote:
> Clearly someone has taken notes... They have seen Steve Jobs pendle his
> merchandise using the "magical" word and thought that if he can sell
> snakeoil at those prices... why cant we?!


But but but Steve Jobs is magical: he turns investors money into much
more money and all without flac or flash support!

Just what does Jobs have against things beginning with the letters
"fla"?

Sorry but there can never, under any circumstances, be enough Steve
Jobs bashing.


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[iPhone]

ralphpnj;571818 Wrote:
> But but but Steve Jobs is magical: he turns investors money into much
> more money and all without flac or flash support!
>
> Just what does Jobs have against things beginning with the letters
> "fla"?
>
> Sorry but there can never, under any circumstances, be enough Steve
> Jobs bashing.

As there is an exception to every rule, unless one is busy bashing Bill
Gates or Al Gore!


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
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[RonM]

It's so good to be in the company of others who consider Apple to be the
ultimate Evil Empire. . .


--
RonM
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[ralphpnj]

iPhone;571831 Wrote:
> As there is an exception to every rule, unless one is busy bashing Bill
> Gates or Al Gore!

Al Gore - yes (but I would guess for quite different reasons than you
bash him for.)

Bill Gates - yes but it's not nearly as much fun as it used to be since
he's no longer in charge at Microsoft.

RonM;571832 Wrote:
> It's so good to be in the company of others who consider Apple to be the
> ultimate Evil Empire. . .

I'm not sure that Apple is "the ultimate Evil Empire" but it's most
certainly way, way up in the Evil Empire rankings. However Steve Jobs,
while not really evil, is still quite the manipulator since he usually
presents the world some neat little toy (iPod, iPhone, iTunes, iPad,
iGet-it-already) which in the long and short run winds up costing
people much more than they had originally thought it would. The best
apart Jobs methods is that just about everyone thinks he some semi-god
when he's really doing is what any very good businessman would do.

And the remember the best businessmen are the ones who can hose you and
still have you smile about it!


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[michael123]

If people are buying copper high-end (or "high-end") power cords for
5000$, what would you expect?....


--
michael123
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[rihanna]

Sitting between stock SPSU and Squeezebox, the SBooster does deliver as
promised - just. Sort of. It dials down the background hash. At
least, I think it does. With such marginal improvements, it's easy to
doubt oneself. To what degree the SBooster will work for you will
likely depend on your particular system. For 40 Euros, it's a tidy,
low-risk entry point into Squeezebox Upgrade's first world.


--
rihanna
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[empty99]

iPhone;571568 Wrote:
>
>
> Buyer beware, the only change to your system will be the lightness in
> ones wallet and a little less treble from your lowered seating
> position.

There's that smooth warm analog sound without the "digital edges"
upgrade!


--
empty99
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[smooveg]

Hi All,

I bought the S-booster (Squeeze-upgrade - Linear power supply for the
Squeezebox Classic 5V) for the Squeeze-box classic.

The sound quality is way better than the original adapter.
the sound is more spacial, there is more rest in the sound.
instrument that I couldn't hear before i can hear now.

My set is a marantz SR-8002 with kef IQ7 speakers and a q10c centre
speaker.

I did my test in the stereo and pure direct mode.

Ps. If you'll type in squeeze-upgrade in google you will find they're
website.


--
smooveg
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[Gazjam]

first post huh?

Its good when you buy something that makes an improvement..


--
Gazjam
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[Amauta]

First post indeed, and to me it is nothing more than a commercial for
the "magic" thing.


--
Amauta

SqueezeboxServer 7.5.1 on Qnap TS-119.
3x Squeezebox2, 1 Squeezebox Classic, 2x BOOM - excellent sound!, One
little RED Radio

'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/Squeezebox_II/)
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[Phil Leigh]

Amauta;576248 Wrote:
> First post indeed, and to me it is nothing more than a commercial for
> the "magic" thing.

+1, Hmmm... I smell a rat


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[Nonreality]

Phil Leigh;576254 Wrote:
> +1, Hmmm... I smell a rat

I think you guys killed it. I was waiting for more great claims. Now
we will never know.


--
Nonreality

-IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.-

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[iPhone]

Nonreality;578202 Wrote:
> I think you guys killed it. I was waiting for more great claims. Now
> we will never know.

One can only hope. Do we really need more? Once they use "Magic" and
"Night and Day Difference" its time to hide your wallet!

Maybe I'm not an Audiophool after all because anybody that believes
that adding X (insert the accessory or after market product here) to
what they already have can make a phenomenal change IE "Night and Day"
shouldn't have bought the base component in the first place because if
its that easy to improve it, the manufacture should have already found
that and included it if the base component was worth buying in the
first place.


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
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[Phil Leigh]

A veil has indeed lifted... a veil of BS :-)


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[Mnyb]

iPhone;578327 Wrote:
> One can only hope. Do we really need more? Once they use "Magic" and
> "Night and Day Difference" its time to hide your wallet!
>
> Maybe I'm not an Audiophool after all because anybody that believes
> that adding X (insert the accessory or after market product here) to
> what they already have can make a phenomenal change IE "Night and Day"
> shouldn't have bought the base component in the first place because if
> its that easy to improve it, the manufacture should have already found
> that and included it if the base component was worth buying in the
> first place.

Sometimes you get your wishes fullfilled ;)

Passive Biwiring terminals and spikes on "every" speaker cus the
audiophools want it.
Even if it is pure BS science .


--
Mnyb

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps
SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center,
and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4
Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery)
I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to
control this
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[ralphpnj]

Mnyb;578440 Wrote:
> Sometimes you get your wishes fullfilled ;)
>
> Passive Biwiring terminals and spikes on "every" speaker cus the
> audiophools want it.
> Even if it is pure BS science .


The benefits of bi-wiring are still the subject of debate but there are
very clear and audible reasons for using spikes - they do provide
improve the performance of a given speaker.

Some audiophile tweaks are just bad or questionable science but many
others are good science and very useful. Bi-wiring and spikes are
examples of each.


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Mnyb]

ralphpnj;578486 Wrote:
> The benefits of bi-wiring are still the subject of debate but there are
> very clear and audible reasons for using spikes - they do provide
> improve the performance of a given speaker.
>
> Some audiophile tweaks are just bad or questionable science but many
> others are good science and very useful. Bi-wiring and spikes are
> examples of each.

It a very clear difference in using spike you tune in a resonance in
the midrange/lower bass it's very different indeed. I'm all for soft
springy feets tuned to the speakers weight.

like these:

http://www.sonicdesign.se/sdfeet.html

You can not make the speaker rigid enough with spikes.
So a floating suspension tuned below the bass range actually makes the
speaker stand more still than with spikes .

I read an article somewhere (forgive me for my bad source references, I
should really try to find them when needed) that biwiring is slightly
worse than a good enough single wire, this makes sense two different
LCR networks in series with each filter.

For example Dynaudio does not believe in biwiring and are not offering
it on their speakers (or so it was when I last checked, maybe they
caved in to).

And worse as marketing wants biwiring terminals you can not build
speakers with series filters ? Some times a series filter can be the
best choice for the application. So a whole class of filter topologies
are exluded ?

Maybe in the case of passive bi-amping you can make good use of the
biwiring terminals. Audiovector sometimes demo with passive triamping
?
They have triwired speakers and also offers cryo freezed components so
their science is not much to have.


--
Mnyb

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps
SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center,
and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4
Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery)
I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to
control this
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[Phil Leigh]

Mnyb;578495 Wrote:
> It a very clear difference in using spike you tune in a resonance in the
> midrange/lower bass it's very different indeed. I'm all for soft springy
> feets tuned to the speakers weight.
>
> like these:
>
> http://www.sonicdesign.se/sdfeet.html
>
> You can not make the speaker rigid enough with spikes.
> So a floating suspension tuned below the bass range actually makes the
> speaker stand more still than with spikes .
>
> I read an article somewhere (forgive me for my bad source references, I
> should really try to find them when needed) that biwiring is slightly
> worse than a good enough single wire, this makes sense two different
> LCR networks in series with each filter.
>
> For example Dynaudio does not believe in biwiring and are not offering
> it on their speakers (or so it was when I last checked, maybe they
> caved in to).
>
> And worse as marketing wants biwiring terminals you can not build
> speakers with series filters ? Some times a series filter can be the
> best choice for the application. So a whole class of filter topologies
> are exluded ?
>
> Maybe in the case of passive bi-amping you can make good use of the
> biwiring terminals. Audiovector sometimes demo with passive triamping
> ?
> They have triwired speakers and also offers cryo freezed components so
> their science is not much to have.

You can't generalise the spikes argument. It depends on your speakers
and (most of all) on the nature of your floor... Both methods are valid
in different contexts.

As for passive bi-wiring - I agree, but the main spin-off benefit was
that with the extra terminals you get to do passive bi-amping - and
that CAN make a difference - although nowhere near as much as active
bi-amping with no passive x-over :-)


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[Mnyb]

Passive x-over is so 1950 , but i have them myself speakers are so much
an acoustic thing the selection of "home" active speakers is tiny.
So there you are, and even fewer have a working concept for active home
theater.
Prices extreme to say the least even if in principle it does not have
to be. It should really be cost effective if adopted more widely (and
sound so much better).

But it has been the logical way forward for decades.

Even more locigal as the active digital solution, but there is no
standard and only propriotary systems is avaible .


--
Mnyb

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps
SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center,
and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4
Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery)
I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to
control this
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Nonreality]

Foolish me, I thought those spikes were just to keep the speaker in
place on my carpet.


--
Nonreality

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[Mnyb]

Nonreality;578633 Wrote:
> Foolish me, I thought those spikes were just to keep the speaker in
> place on my carpet.

Yea that could be an application, is it not very popular with thick
carpeting that covers the whole floor in the US ?


--
Mnyb

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps
SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center,
and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4
Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery)
I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to
control this
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Nonreality]

Mnyb;578635 Wrote:
> Yea that could be an application, is it not very popular with thick
> carpeting that covers the whole floor in the US ?

It seems to work with our shorter Berber type carper.


--
Nonreality

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[JKlein]

I am new here, but have already examined a lot on this forum. I
recognize the returning names like e.g. Phil Leigh, JohnSwenson and
Soundcheck by now. Very educative and I am grateful for the efforts
they and others put in helping and teaching.

I want to share some subjectives. I bought the Squeeze-upgrade Best of
Two Worlds Solution, this means a linear PS in combination with the
Sbooster. In theory the better option compared to the SMPS but in
practice in my system it did not bring the expected improvement. After
a thorough listening test the SMPS brings more reality and live
experience. It seems as if the LPS+Sbooster indeed softens things but
with this also vividness, "air" and spacious information diminishes. So
for me it didn't work. Trial and error. Still want to try a good linear
ps though, DIY this time.

Rgds.

Jef

--------------------------------------------
System: Tentlabs DIY CD-player, Integrated Hawk A-18 class A, Dynaudio
special 25. Chris Venhaus DIY silver interlinks and speakercable CHeLA.
Kemp Electronics Powerblock. QNAP TS-219P, Touch.


--
JKlein
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[Phil Leigh]

JKlein;582307 Wrote:
> I am new here, but have already examined a lot on this forum. I
> recognize the returning names like e.g. Phil Leigh, JohnSwenson and
> Soundcheck by now. Very educative and I am grateful for the efforts
> they and others put in helping and teaching.
>
> I want to share some subjectives. I bought the Squeeze-upgrade Best of
> Two Worlds Solution, this means a linear PS in combination with the
> Sbooster. In theory the better option compared to the SMPS but in
> practice in my system it did not bring the expected improvement. After
> a thorough listening test the SMPS brings more reality and live
> experience. It seems as if the LPS+Sbooster indeed softens things but
> with this also vividness, "air" and spacious information diminishes. So
> for me it didn't work. Trial and error. Still want to try a good linear
> ps though, DIY this time.
>
> Rgds.
>
> Jef
>
> --------------------------------------------
> System: Tentlabs DIY CD-player, Integrated Hawk A-18 class A, Dynaudio
> special 25. Chris Venhaus DIY silver interlinks and speakercable CHeLA.
> Kemp Electronics Powerblock. QNAP TS-219P, Touch.

Interesting conclusion - you preferred the Stock PSU.
Wonder what the Sbooster things actually does...


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Dura]

When I changed my SB Classic for a Touch, I first kep my (far too
expensive) Russ Andrews Sqeeuzepak PS. That thing made an audible
difference for the better on the Classic, basically giving clearer
sound. Recently I compared the Squeezepak to the standaard Touch PS and
could not detect any audible difference!
My conclusion matches what has been stated often here on the forum: the
Touch output ( btw, I use the digital out into an Audio-GD Ref 5 DAC) is
so clean, upgrading the PS will give no or at best very very small
improvements. Therefore I'm not interested in the S-booster thing on
the Touch, but it might very well be benificial with the Classic.


--
Dura
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[iPhone]

Phil Leigh;582323 Wrote:
> Interesting conclusion - you preferred the Stock PSU.
> Wonder what the Sbooster things actually does...

That is a very easy question to answer Phil, what it actually does is
lower ones checking account balance without any return for said
lowering!

IE it separates those looking for Audio Nirvana from their hard earned
money giving nothing in return. Common Sense should tell everybody that
if the Touch or any other Squeezebox needed a better PS it would come
with one. If there was some huge sonic gain to be had simply by adding
a Linear Power Supply then Slim Devices would have used one! Last does
it make any sense to spend the cost of the actual device itself on an
aftermarket power supply or even half?


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Phil Leigh]

iPhone;582536 Wrote:
> That is a very easy question to answer Phil, what it actually does is
> lower ones checking account balance without any return for said
> lowering!
>
> IE it separates those looking for Audio Nirvana from their hard earned
> money giving nothing in return. Common Sense should tell everybody that
> if the Touch or any other Squeezebox needed a better PS it would come
> with one. If there was some huge sonic gain to be had simply by adding
> a Linear Power Supply then Slim Devices would have used one! Last does
> it make any sense to spend the cost of the actual device itself on an
> aftermarket power supply or even half?
Hey iPhone, old chap, it's me! - I know the PSU won't make a blind bit
of difference. I was just wondering what particular piece of voodoo
they had in there that was SUPPOSED to make a difference... :-)


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[garym]

Aha, so we're back to the 2nd post in this thread after all. ;-)

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=571566&postcount=2


--
garym
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[ralphpnj]

garym;582576 Wrote:
> Aha, so we're back to the 2nd post in this thread after all. ;-)
>
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=571566&postcount=2

That may be true but at least now we have actual proof of the wisdom of
your earlier post.

Years ago at the beginning of the upgraded power cord craze I had to
have my Aragon power amp serviced. When I was picking the amp from the
manufacturer's facilities I happened to run across the actual designer
of the amp and I asked him about using these expensive power chords.
Basically what he said was that the stock power cord was more than
adequate to do the intended job but he saw no harm in trying a
different power chord. Would it change the sound, maybe. Would it make
the sound "better", again maybe but highly unlikely. One thing he did
say was that selling the amp with an upgraded power chord would make
the list price of the amp quite a bit more expensive with no
discernible sonic improvement. Since that brief conversation I've
avoided buying any expensive power chords and have saved myself quite a
bit of money.

But as we like to say here:YMMV


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[garym]

ralphpnj;582583 Wrote:
> That may be true but at least now we have actual proof of the wisdom of
> your earlier post.

good point! Actually, I could spend money that would clearly improve my
listening situation, but it would cost more than 1/2 of my net worth.
I'd have to divorce my wife (as the wife acceptance factor has placed
many more limitations on my setup than either money or availability of
better stuff).


--
garym
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[rgro]

garym;582589 Wrote:
> good point! Actually, I could spend money that would clearly improve my
> listening situation, but it would cost more than 1/2 of my net worth.
> I'd have to divorce my wife (as the wife acceptance factor has placed
> many more limitations on my setup than either money or availability of
> better stuff).

I have to say, the senses of humor on this forum really give me a big
chuckle, sometimes. The A/V guy that has been a great help for us in
building our audio system (though, because of this forum, we haven't
taken his advice on expensive power cords and cabling!), happened to
mention that cleaning up the power going into our HD TV might be the
biggest improvement we could make to the picture quality. So, I
slapped a PS Audio Duet on there and, my goodness, he was quite right.
Almost as good as putting the DAC on our Duet.


--
rgro

Rick

System information
------------------------
Touch w/Hardware V 5, SBC running 7.5.1 r9009. Controller and Touch
configured in all-wireless set-up using Netgear WNDR 3700.

Running Squeeze Server 7.5.1 r30836 on Windows 7 64 bit/ HP Pavillion
w/Intel i7 processor

Marantz PM8003 integrated amp, Cambridge Audio DacMagic, Vienna
Acoustics Mozart Grand speakers, REL Acoustics R305 sub-bass, PS Audio
Quintet.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[iPhone]

Phil Leigh;582566 Wrote:
> Hey iPhone, old chap, it's me! - I know the PSU won't make a blind bit
> of difference. I was just wondering what particular piece of voodoo
> they had in there that was SUPPOSED to make a difference... :-)

Should have put a Smiley on that one, sorry. Wasn't really speaking
about your post, I was just tongue in cheek answering the unasked
wondering question at the end of that post. ;=}


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[iPhone]

Nonreality;582685 Wrote:
> I do know that having the spikes on my speakers have upgraded my
> listening experience. My damn cat has a much harder time knocking them
> over so I can listen to them in the right position. The bi-amping also
> makes life a bit more of a problem for him knocking them over, the
> leverage thing.

And you call yourself an Audiophile ;=} No Pets, No Smoking, No dust,
no drinks, and no humans in the room! Well I guess we need that last
one.

PS Don't buy any Vandersteen model below the Quatro Woods, cats love
those full length speaker socks!


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Nonreality]

iPhone;582687 Wrote:
> And you call yourself an Audiophile ;=} No Pets, No Smoking, No dust, no
> drinks, and no humans in the room! Well I guess we need that last one.
>
> PS Don't buy any Vandersteen model below the Quatro Woods, cats love
> those full length speaker socks!

I've actually only called myself a wanna be audiophile. Very lacking
at that too. For some reason I need my damn cat. He likes my music
when no one else does.


--
Nonreality

-IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.-

HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[iPhone]

Nonreality;582704 Wrote:
> I've actually only called myself a wanna be audiophile. Very lacking at
> that too. For some reason I need my damn cat. He likes my music when
> no one else does.

Hey Non, I like your music. I listen to a lot of Tom Waits too. Besides
being allergic to cats, I couldn't have one even if I wasn't because I
have to many Vandersteen Speakers and would have killed the cat by now
if we had one due to speaker sock damage!


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[soundcheck]

Hi guys.

Great to read about the joint "SqueezeBox forum gang" wisdom.

Looks not pretty nice to me that you shot Smooveg as a first time
poster who came up with a serious opinion about that device.

What kind of attitude is that supposed to be!?!

Even if that guy would have been part of that company - none of the
gang members involved in that discussion obviously ever had that piece
of equipment in hand. (Jklein you don't belong to that SB gang of
course)

Now I am telling you. I'm in the lucky position to test one of those
devices. I just received it yesterday for testing.

I'm running my Touch off batteries, Teddy-regs and a pretty solid
EPCOS Sikorel buffer. I got all my proposed tweaks in place. And I'm
currently
testing roomequalization with brutefir and DRC filters on SBS.

This "base"-setup outperforms the stock SB Touch by a large margin on
every audio aspect you can think of. ( I'm not sure though yet if the
DRC stuff
is not causing too much losses and hazzle. It removes not only bad room
modes. )


I'm considering myself pretty open-minded. Some of you guys might have
realized that.

I was convinced that my PS setup was better then average.

I hooked the Sbooster up last night.

A no brainer. Plug out - Plug in.

One thing I can say already. Once it's plugged in, your soundstage
clears up.

First impression: I'm supporting Smooveg findings. I'd call his
description pretty much what happened in my case too. I immediately
realized that change.

There where is light there is dark... ...usually.
I'll do some more listening and testing and give it some more time to
settle.


I havn't tested the entire SBooster supply yet, just the booster.
There's more to do.


So guys -- Peace!!!!!!!!!! -- I'll be back. ;)


Cheers


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[michael123]

soundcheck;584070 Wrote:
> I'm running my Touch off batteries, Teddy-regs and a pretty solid EPCOS
> Sikorel buffer.

Why just Teddy-regs?
My friend is using Teddy touch external power supply and said that the
difference is huge..
[ yet, he is not using Touch for critical listening, for that he has
NorthStar Transport + DAC ;) ]


--
michael123
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[soundcheck]

michael123;584071 Wrote:
> Why just Teddy-regs?
> My friend is using Teddy touch external power supply and said that the
> difference is huge..
> [ yet, he is not using Touch for critical listening, for that he has
> NorthStar Transport + DAC ;) ]


Because a single DIY SuperTeddyReg (to be exact) ""just"" cost me 50$.
;)

Not to forget -- I wanted a buffered battery supply.


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[iPhone]

soundcheck;584070 Wrote:
> Looks not pretty nice to me that you shot Smooveg as a first time poster
> who came up with a serious opinion about that device.
>
> What kind of attitude is that supposed to be!?!
>
>
> I havn't tested the entire SBooster supply yet, just the booster.
> There's more to do.
>
>
> So guys -- Peace!!!!!!!!!! -- I'll be back. ;)
>
>
> Cheers

Nobody "Shot" him down, the rip-off idea of an S-Booster was shot down!


Looks to me that you might also buy into the BS of a Linear or Battery
PS as a must for the Touch. It doesn't do a single thing for the Audio
output Analog or Digital. The 5VDC input for the Touch is mainly just
like the AC mains input for a Pre-Amp or Amp, its just the source
voltage. There are internal switchers and regulators inside the Touch
after the 5VDC input voltage so adding a battery and a regular external
to the Touch does nothing toward making any measurable or listenable
improvement to the Audio.

Sure it might make one feel superior or "more Audiophile", but again
its all imagined or placebo. And when one thinks about it, isn't a $50
super regulator a little silly for a $300 device? Again, if the Touch
needed it, it would have come with it.


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[soundcheck]

Dear iPhone.

You might guess that I expected such an answer. Phil will be the next
chiming in. Perhaps Mynb last.

I know 5V are 5V, bits are bits. And a buffer is just a buffer.
I heard that before.

There'll always be a group of people like you. And there'll be other
people
like me who just ignore people like you. The same way you ignore people
like us.
Though with people like you we wouldn't see any progress in the world.

Stick to your little world and don't blame others passing its
borderlines.

I do understand that there can't be a world outside your little world -
because somebody else told you so.

I can tell you, your horizon is not the end of the world. There is
hope.

Cheers


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[ralphpnj]

soundcheck;584112 Wrote:
> Dear iPhone.
>
> You might guess that I expected such an answer. Phil will be the next
> chiming in. Perhaps Mynb last.
>
> I know 5V are 5V, bits are bits. And a buffer is just a buffer.
> I heard that before.
>
> There'll always be a group of people like you. And there'll be other
> people
> like me who just ignore people like you. The same way you ignore people
> like us.
> Though with people like you we wouldn't see any progress in the world.
>
> Stick to your little world and don't blame others passing its
> borderlines.
>
> I do understand that there can't be a world outside your little world -
> because somebody else told you so.
>
> I can tell you, your horizon is not the end of the world. There is
> hope.
>
> Cheers

That's just completely unfair: it's not that the people against things
like the s-booster are anti-progress, it's more like they are anti
wasting time and money on things that have been clearly shown to make
absolutely no difference in the sound.

Progress comes from correctly identifying exactly where best to
concentrate one's efforts. Think about all those years wasted as
alchemists tired to change lead into gold versus all the progress that
came once that worthless pursuit was abandoned. Same principles apply
in the advancement of audio, as in a bad power supply should be
replaced with a good power supply but beyond that there just isn't any
real improvement. Replacing a good power supply, as in one that doesn't
introduce noise into the audio chain, with a "better" power supply just
doesn't enhance the sound enough, if at all, to justify the cost.

Progress has nothing to do with it.


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[soundcheck]

Dear ralphpny.

!!!!!!!!!!!Fairness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People who never tried a device or tweak, judge about people who have
that device right in front of them -- listening to it at the very
moment.

That you call fair.


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[Robin Bowes]

On 20/10/10 19:23, soundcheck wrote:
>
> Dear ralphpny.
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!Fairness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> People who never tried a device or tweak, judge about people who have
> that device right in front of them -- listening to it at the very
> moment.
>
> That you call fair.

I have *never* listened to my Transporter with my right trouser leg
rolled up and my left foot in a bucket of cold rice pudding, so in all
fairness I can't say that it won't improve the sound.

R.
--
"Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
http://www.theshackshakers.com/

[ralphpnj]

soundcheck;584123 Wrote:
> Dear ralphpny.
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!Fairness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> People who never tried a device or tweak, judge about people who have
> that device right in front of them -- listening to it at the very
> moment.
>
> That you call fair.

What you seem to be failing to understand is that many people do not
respond well to the kinds of audiophile mumbo-jumbo that say things
like "vast improvements" and, to quote you "your soundstage clears up"
because those kinds of statements are pretty much meaningless. Besides
that they a very strong bias in favor of blind and double blind
listening tests, especially when and where the sonic improvements are
said to be so clearly audible.

soundcheck;584127 Wrote:
> This discussion is not about opinions.
>
> This discussion is about respect and attitude!
>
>
> Some people experienced and reporting something - hard facts.
> Some others have and express a more then questionable opinion about
> that. (This is not the first time this happens.)
> That's the situation.
>
> Don't mix things up.
>
>
>
> And btw. I did not buy that device. I have it here for testing. I said
> that before.
>
>
> Cheers

You "hearing" an improvement or even a difference is not a "hard fact"
unless the difference can be measured, now that would be a "hard
fact".

Robin Bowes;584129 Wrote:
> I have *never* listened to my Transporter with my right trouser leg
> rolled up and my left foot in a bucket of cold rice pudding, so in all
> fairness I can't say that it won't improve the sound.

I don't know about rolled up pants legs and cold rice pudding but I can
tell you that shorts and chocolate pudding (slightly warm without
whipped cream) make absolutely no difference or improvement in the
sound :)


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[soundcheck]

>> You "hearing" an improvement or even a difference is not a "hard
fact" unless the difference can be measured, now that would be a "hard
fact".

Wrong!

People who buy 200$ devices usually have to trust their ears.

Those ears are known to be better on many aspects then most of the
measurement gear out there - especially when it comes to low
level details and distortions.

If several people independently experience the same result. I call it
hard facts.

Opinions as expressed over here more then often are worth nothing.

I wouldn't state anything over here or anywhere else, what I couldn't
prove in a listening session.


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[ralphpnj]

soundcheck;584137 Wrote:
> I wouldn't state anything over here or anywhere else, what I couldn't
> prove in a listening session.

Fair enough. Now just get ready for the coming flame war regarding what
constitutes a proper "listening session" :)


--
ralphpnj

Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter ->
Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch

'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[garym]

soundcheck;584137 Wrote:
> If several people independently experience the same result. I call it
> hard facts.

Fantastic! So, in fact, Elvis is still alive and the Earth has lots of
visitors from other planets, and they are all mingling with the
numerous ghosts haunting houses.


--
garym
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[Phil Leigh]

soundcheck;584137 Wrote:
> >> You "hearing" an improvement or even a difference is not a "hard
> fact" unless the difference can be measured, now that would be a "hard
> fact".
>
> Wrong!
>
> People who buy 200$ devices usually have to trust their ears.
>
> Those ears are known to be better on many aspects then most of the
> measurement gear out there - especially when it comes to low
> level details and distortions.
>
> If several people independently experience the same result. I call it
> hard facts.
>
> Opinions as expressed over here more then often are worth nothing.
>
> I wouldn't state anything over here or anywhere else, what I couldn't
> prove in a listening session.

I'm sure you believe this all to be true. Unfortunately your definition
of "fact" versus "opinion" is the complete opposite of what is generally
accepted.

Do you REALLY believe that what we think we hear is "fact"?
Do you REALLY believe that we cannot measure everything that we can
hear?

(I'm not asking if you think we can make sense of what we can measure -
that's a totally different question and is actually what I believe to be
the real issue we should be discussing...)


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[iPhone]

ralphpnj;584135 Wrote:
> ....... but I can tell you that shorts and chocolate pudding (slightly
> warm without whipped cream) make absolutely no difference or
> improvement in the sound :)

But it does make for a more pleasurable listening experience ;=}


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
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[Robin Bowes]

On 20/10/10 18:18, soundcheck wrote:
>
> Dear iPhone.
>
> You might guess that I expected such an answer. Phil will be the next
> chiming in. Perhaps Mynb last.
>
> I know 5V are 5V, bits are bits. And a buffer is just a buffer.
> I heard that before.
>
> There'll always be a group of people like you. And there'll be other
> people like me who just ignore people like you. The same way you ignore people
> like us.
> Though with people like you we wouldn't see any progress in the world.
>
> Stick to your little world and don't blame others passing its
> borderlines.
>
> I do understand that there can't be a world outside your little world -
> because somebody else told you so.
>
> I can tell you, your horizon is not the end of the world. There is
> hope.

soundcheck,

You are, of course, free to spend your money on whatever you see fit,
and to report your findings and opinions wherever appropriate.

Similarly, we are free to be critical of your spending decisions and to
question your opinions when you post them in a public forum. After all,
we have our opinions too.

Being obnoxious and condescending will *not* serve your cause.

R.
--
"Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
http://www.theshackshakers.com/

[soundcheck]

Robin Bowes;584119 Wrote:
> On 20/10/10 18:18, soundcheck wrote:
> >
> > Dear iPhone.
> >
> > You might guess that I expected such an answer. Phil will be the
> next
> > chiming in. Perhaps Mynb last.
> >
> > I know 5V are 5V, bits are bits. And a buffer is just a buffer.
> > I heard that before.
> >
> > There'll always be a group of people like you. And there'll be other
> > people like me who just ignore people like you. The same way you
> ignore people
> > like us.
> > Though with people like you we wouldn't see any progress in the
> world.
> >
> > Stick to your little world and don't blame others passing its
> > borderlines.
> >
> > I do understand that there can't be a world outside your little world
> -
> > because somebody else told you so.
> >
> > I can tell you, your horizon is not the end of the world. There is
> > hope.
>
> soundcheck,
>
> You are, of course, free to spend your money on whatever you see fit,
> and to report your findings and opinions wherever appropriate.
>
> Similarly, we are free to be critical of your spending decisions and
> to
> question your opinions when you post them in a public forum. After
> all,
> we have our opinions too.
>
> Being obnoxious and condescending will *not* serve your cause.
>
> R.
> --
> "Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
> http://www.theshackshakers.com/



This discussion is not about opinions.

This discussion is about respect and attitude!


Some people experienced and reporting something - hard facts.
Some others have and express a more then questionable opinion about
that. (This is not the first time this happens.) That's the situation.


Don't mix things up.



And btw. I did not buy that device. I have it here for testing. I said
that before.


Cheers


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[Robin Bowes]

On 20/10/10 19:44, soundcheck wrote:
>
> This discussion is not about opinions.
>
> This discussion is about respect and attitude!
>
> Some people experienced and reporting something - hard facts.
> Some others have and express a more then questionable opinion about
> that. (This is not the first time this happens.) That's the situation.
>
> Don't mix things up.

You are *not* reporting hard facts, you are reporting your opinions.

The only disrespect and poor attitude that I'm seeing is from you
because not everyone has the same opinion as you, or accepts your
opinion as "hard fact".

If anyone's mixing things up it's you.

R.
--
"Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
http://www.theshackshakers.com/

[soundcheck]

Robin Bowes;584132 Wrote:
> On 20/10/10 19:44, soundcheck wrote:
> >
> > This discussion is not about opinions.
> >
> > This discussion is about respect and attitude!
> >
> > Some people experienced and reporting something - hard facts.
> > Some others have and express a more then questionable opinion about
> > that. (This is not the first time this happens.) That's the
> situation.
> >
> > Don't mix things up.
>
> You are *not* reporting hard facts, you are reporting your opinions.
>
> The only disrespect and poor attitude that I'm seeing is from you
> because not everyone has the same opinion as you, or accepts your
> opinion as "hard fact".
>
> If anyone's mixing things up it's you.
>
> R.
> --
> "Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
> http://www.theshackshakers.com/


That's your opinion accompanied by your attitude.


I'll cut this nonsense off here. This is getting ridiculous.


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[Robin Bowes]

On 20/10/10 20:03, soundcheck wrote:
>
> Robin Bowes;584132 Wrote:
>>
>> You are *not* reporting hard facts, you are reporting your opinions.
>>
>> The only disrespect and poor attitude that I'm seeing is from you
>> because not everyone has the same opinion as you, or accepts your
>> opinion as "hard fact".
>>
>> If anyone's mixing things up it's you.
>>
>> R.
>> --
>> "Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
>> http://www.theshackshakers.com/
>
>
> That's your opinion accompanied by your attitude.

It's my opinion, yes.

There is no attitude, unless you equate "not agreeing with you" to
"having attitude" ?

>
> I'll cut this nonsense off here. This is getting ridiculous.

Heh.

R.
--
"Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes
http://www.theshackshakers.com/

[michael123]

Guys

Audiophiles _listen_ to music. And this is what matters in the end.
The little I learn in this field is that there are no rules.

--Michael


--
michael123
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[Phil Leigh]

michael123;584138 Wrote:
> Guys
>
> Audiophiles _listen_ to music. And this is what matters in the end.
> The little I learn in this field is that there are no rules.
>
> --Michael
Absolutely correct.
However, we can use some science to help us try and understand and
improve the unreliable rules...


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[Phil Leigh]

soundcheck;584112 Wrote:
> ...
> You might guess that I expected such an answer. Phil will be the next
> chiming in. ...

No I won't (oh - rats...)


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[JKlein]

@Soundcheck: how did you use the sbooster, did you hook it up with the
stock SMPS or with your own LPS. I mean is the described improvement
the combination of the latter?
If you also want to test the "squeeze-upgrade" linear PS it will
automatically be with the sbooster attached, it is one product. But I
would be interested in the comparison of your PS against the SU PS
alone and with or without the sbooster. And also the difference in
influence on the analogue output compared to the digital output of the
Touch. I mean is the biggest improvement e.g. to be expected when using
the digital output to an external DAC, which will be my next plan.

Curious about your findings.

Gr. Jef


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JKlein
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[MCG555]

Hi there, I am pretty sure that "Soundcheck" is the writer of one of the
reviews of that device in the german magazine "eins null"...

http://www.squeeze-upgrade.com/images/Squeeze_upgrade%20Eins%20Null.pdf


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MCG555
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[soundcheck]

MCG555;597806 Wrote:
> Hi there, fyi, I am pretty sure that "Soundcheck" is the writer of one
> of the reviews of that device in the german magazine "eins null"...
>
> http://www.squeeze-upgrade.com/images/Squeeze_upgrade%20Eins%20Null.pdf

At least I'm 100% in line with them.

I'm still using the filter device hooked up to a EPCOS buffererd
battery supply and a Super TeddyReg.

I've been running/presenting the Touch together with the SBOOSTER
supply
on the biggest DIY fair in Germany in November.

I would still highly recommend that device. It takes the bloat out.
Even my SuperTeddyReg supply was worse without that filter.


Just to mention it: I do not have any commercial relationships to
either
EinsenUndNullen magazine or SBOOSTER.

Cheers


--
soundcheck

'soundcheck's ***@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
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[evdplancke]

I have experienced the sbooster on my SBT and after a few days, I don't
notice any difference anymore between my analog an digital outputs. My
first impression is that the improvement is higher on the analog than
on the digital. But, to be honnest, the supply of my DAC (V-DAC with
standard PSU) is of poor quality, and this may explain why. I will try
soon with a linear PSU on the V-DAC.


--
evdplancke
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[c3p0]

evdplancke;602902 Wrote:
> I have experienced the sbooster on my SBT and after a few days, I don't
> notice any difference anymore between my analog an digital outputs. My
> first impression is that the improvement is higher on the analog than
> on the digital. But, to be honnest, the supply of my DAC (V-DAC with
> standard PSU) is of poor quality, and this may explain why. I will try
> soon with a linear PSU on the V-DAC.

Hi,
My Vdac ran very warm (hot) with the supplied wall wart, i measured
output at 19 volts (not good). I changed to a Strontronics low ripple
higher current SMPS, Vdac now cool and sounds better; cost about £10.

I am using a Power Plant Premier to supply my HiFI (Moon i1/cd1 and
Sonus Faber Domus, Touch, Vdac) and this has reduced a lot of anomalies
on my system. Prior to fitting this, i tried swapping cables but
couldn't really here any difference, but after fitting it the
difference to the system wasnt subtle. Everything seemed clearer,louder
at my standard volume setting. swapping cables now become noticable.

I too have been experimenting with Soundchecks Mods and havent come to
a clear conclusion yet as any changes on my system are very subtle. I
believe that because i have a very clean (pure regenerated supply) that
any effect of switching on and off parts of the Touch is much reduced.

I also know that my system is low jitter already. I tried out a Digital
Lens and because I could by-pass it via a click on the remote I was able
to do direct A/B comparison very quickly.
Touch - Vovox cable -Digital lens- Qed Cable(using the jitter meter i
could see that it was already low and not reduced further by the lens).
I also couldn't hear any difference. But when i tried the Vovox directly
between the Touch and the Vdac the change was pronounced. Digital lens
was returned but cable was purchased.

So this brings me to my theory on Soundchecks mods and why its subtle
and almost non existant on some but huge and pronounced on others. I
believe that with a dirty supply the effect of Jitter is increased,
switching off parts of the touch reduce the electrical pathways and
interference by dirty power,this will reduce jitter and other
interferences. If,like me, you have a regenerated clean sinewave power
supply (filtering and going linear is not enough) it will reduce
spurious emissions. If you have a jitter sensitive system of Dac and
cable then any reduction in jitter will be noticable. However if your
system is already Low Jitter and your cable and Dac are Jitter robust
the effect will be very slight to not noticable. This may help explain
and reduce the arguments about Soundchecks mods especially in regard to
On board/ off board Flac to PCM conversion (theory says there should be
no difference). To test my theory (easy) we need someone who notices
Soundchecks mods making a big difference to measure the Jitter before
and after (that's difficult and expensive)


--
c3p0
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[evdplancke]

Thanks for the advice, but I am not sure to understand your logic: on
one hand, you are using a low cost SMPS for your V-DAC allthough I
would expect this type of PSU being in every aspects worse than a
linear PSU. On the other hand, you are using a power plant premier of
about 2k€... for sure I believe for that cost you will have a huge
impact on quality!

Personally, I am looking for a budget solution, since my budget is
quite limited. I have tried a linear PSU of 25€ but did not notice any
audible difference between analog and digital outputs of my SBT. Maybe
the system behind my V-DAC is not discriminant enough: ampli NAD C315
and pretty old PEL AT-1 speakers of 1993. I am using a low cost toslink
cable that may also be a weakness.

Other suggestions for improvement? What about system grounding? I
suspect this may also have an impact.


--
evdplancke
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[c3p0]

Hi,
at the low cost end a Smps can out perform a linear Psu. Linear isn't
always better, the Smps with the Touch is very good. A lot of Hi end
Hifi manufacturers are using Smps Inc Linn. So don't write Smps off, a
bit of specification Research will find you one at low cost.

I agree with you that there is a point where spending money on Cables
and Psu's becomes pointless when your Speakers / Amp aren't good enough
to resolve differences. Luckily I haven't reached that point yet but if
your speakers are towards the lower cost end and are physically smaller
you will hit that resolution limit sooner. I know if I had a few grand
extra to spend on hifi, it would be on Speakers as that would have the
greater sonic impact than spending it on an Amp, or cable.


--
c3p0
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[evdplancke]

c3p0;603263 Wrote:
> Hi,
> So my advice to improve your system, buy a cheaper low ripple Smps for
> the Vdac, (12v is way better than 19v). Keep your amp and save up for
> some new speakers. The new speakers around now are fantastic (speaker
> technology and cabinet design have improved and got cheaper) and you
> wont have to spend a lot to outperform what you have already. C3p0

Thanks a lot for your advice!

For the Touch, I already bought a sbooster that greatly improved the
sound (or at least that's what I thought since after that upgrade, the
SBT analog outperformed the digital through V-DAC... until I
disconnected two other low cost SMPS plugged into the same outlet).

After this bad experience with SMPS, I decided to buy a linear PSU from
Velleman (HQ Power PS2122LE with selectable output from 3V to 12V for
25€ + delivery) to replace the SMPS of the V-DAC. Since then, analog
and digital outputs are on par... but I remain suspicious about low
cost SMPS, at least for interferences that it may cause on neighbour
devices.

Still, after spending about 500€ on DAC & PSUs, I did not leverage the
acquisition of the V-DAC. Therefore, I keep looking at your advice to
renew my speakers. What speakers would you recommend under 1 k€/k$ for
coupling with SBT -> V-DAC - > NAD C315?


--
evdplancke
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[c3p0]

Hi,
This is where the fun begins and the reading of reviews and
selecting ones that you can hear locally.

I cant recommend a particular brand but i can say i have heard quite a
few speakers in the last two years (HiEnd Dealer around the corner from
house) and have been impressed by the sound.

Those are Klipsch, ATC, Quad, B&W, MBL and Sonus Faber. Wharfadale's
too represent good value for money sound.

Set your budget; choose the size of speaker you want and see what you
can get for your money. As i said before speaker design and technology
has moved on in the last couple of years and you can now get
substantially better speakers for your money than you could 10 years
ago.

Go have some fun because in the end despite the reviews it's your ears
that will be the Judge.


--
c3p0
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[WAD62]

As this thread is about improved SB power supplies I thought this might
be of interest to some...I've also added a new thread on the Duet forum
so sorry for the duplication :)

This will only be of use to receiver users in the UK...

Maplins have got a deal on till this coming Tuesday, a 20W regulated
linear variable voltage PSU for £12, will do 9V (no 5V unfortunately so
that rules out the Touch and SB3 unfortunately) as required for the
receiver;

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-...r-supply-32754

Just fitted mine with very pleasing results, a cleaner more detailed
sound!!!

I'm using one as a feed to my main DAC, and another as DAC itself, both
systems show improvements...


--
WAD62

Cheers Will
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[evdplancke]

c3p0;602945 Wrote:
> Hi,
> My Vdac ran very warm (hot) with the supplied wall wart, i measured
> output at 19 volts (not good). I changed to a Strontronics low ripple
> higher current SMPS, Vdac now cool and sounds better; cost about £10.
>

Hi c3p0,

To come back to your setup, are you using the V-DAC with the SBT?

I have to admit that I am currently totally confused about what to do:
I have a very little or subtle improvement of SQ compared to analog (if
not unexistent - you now the placebo effect) with the V-DAC connected to
digital output of the SBT .

So my question: did you experiment any A/B listening between analog and
digital ouputs of the SBT with V-DAC? If yes, what is your setup? Do you
use Toslink or RCA SPDIF, with low or high end cables? Do you hear a
significant difference?

Now that I fixed an evident power supply issue and improved in my
opinion the analog out of the SBT using the Sbooster, I am really
doubting about the benefits of the V-DAC. I thing the improvement is
not really worth the 230€ I paid for. And I am not sure at all that new
speakers or high end cables would help make more difference between
analog and digital out of the SBT.

What's your opinion about that?


--
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[c3p0]

sorry for the delay, been house decorating.

It is generally agreed that the digital output of the Touch is superior
to the Analog output. It has been measured that improving the power
supply has a effect on the Analog output but not the Digital. It has
also been measured by Phil Leigh that Soundchecks mods have a very
slight effect on the Analog output but not the digital. So this would
explain the boost in Analog performance when using the SBooster

Now the fact that you hear no audible difference between Analog output
and Digital feeding a V-dac means that you have some limiting factor in
your system. The reason I say this is that the V-dac is a very good Dac
(better than Touch built in Dac) and has had some brilliant reviews in
Hi End (The 'Oh My goodness How much!!!' sort) Magazines as has the
Touch.

There has also been plenty of people who do notice an audible
difference between Analog and digital with the Touch even with improved
power supplies. Therefore it seems that you have hit a resolution wall
on your system, so lets look at how to improve that.

1) Change the V-dac to better PSU (dont spend money on an expensive
linear, i am telling you a better low ripple SMPS fixed at 12v will
improve the supplied wall wart for around £10).

2) Ask a dealer if you can try out some different cables. I recently
changed from a QED to Vovox and the difference was substantial. ( If
you hear no changes between cheap to expensive then it indicates the
speakers) It could be that your cables from the Dac to the amp may need
changing, i tried several cables and was very suprised by the sound
change between cables, some were very bright and not nice.

3) Your Amp/Speaker combo has maxed out its ability to discriminate. i
would suggest that your speakers are the culprit here. Cost: depends on
your budget.

I have a reasonably good system with the Moon i1 and CD1, PS Audio
Power Plant Premier with Vertex AQ Jaya shunt, Moon Lp3 phono stage,
Acoustic Solid Wood Black turntable and AudioMods arm, with Grado
Prestige Black cartridge, all feeding a pair of Sonus Faber Domus
speakers.
The sound coming out my Vortexbox via ethernet to the Touch and V-Dac
is excellent just pipped the lovely sound of my vinyl setup.

see link for picture.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77125&page=4

So basically you should here a difference between the DAC of the Touch
via analog and the Output of the Vdac via Touch digital ( I am using
SPDIF cable) and its just a case of finding out whats blocking you from
hearing the difference.

Hope this helps?


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[evdplancke]

c3p0;605474 Wrote:
> sorry for the delay, been house decorating.
>
> So basically you should hear a difference between the DAC of the Touch
> via analog and the Output of the Vdac via Touch digital ( I am using
> SPDIF cable) and its just a case of finding out whats blocking you from
> hearing the difference.
>
> Hope this helps?

Thanks a lot for your long and exhaustive answer. Hope your home
decoration is going well.

The fact is that I am quite happy today with what comes out of the
V-DAC. The analog output is allthough another and very strange story:
some days it sounds good - nearly as good as the V-DAC - some days not.
So there must be some instability somewhere in my system but I cannot
figure out where.

To give an example: last day, just by doing A/B listening between
Toslink/SPDIF/analog, I found suddenly a substantial difference between
SPDIF and analog. But after putting Toslink back in place, the
difference disappeared and the analog was again pretty good. It
remained good after a swap betwen Toslink and SPDIF. My conclusion was
that at some point in time, the analog became fuzzy, but the day after,
it was again pretty good. No idea why.

On the other hand, I have listened to other speakers since it is the
last element of the chain I did not upgrade recently. But after first
listening, I have been disappinted by everything I have listen to (MA
RX6, Triangle and Cabasse) and thought my speakers were not that bad.
Most probably, this was because the listening room was not well
designed (speaker selector with dozens of meters of cable) but this
discouraged me anyway in my quest.

That's why I come to the conclusion that I appreciate the sound I get
by now and should probably better stop tweaking my system before my
wife and my wallet get worried about it.

Nevertheless, I'll still try the improvement of the cable side. I'll
follow your advice to use SPDIF Baiden/Canare cables since this is a
quite cheap upgrade. On the other hand, I am currently using QED
speaker cables: are the Vovox much more expensive? What would you
recommend for the audio RCA: also Baiden/Canare?

I am currently using a quite cheap (but IMO not bad) stabilized linear
12V power supply for the V-DAC. Do you think it makes sense to change
it back to 12V SMPS?

Thanks again for your help and expertise!

Regards,

Emmanuel


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[c3p0]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[evdplancke]

Hi,

Thanks again for your very useful advices.

I have ordered the Belden/Canare cables + recomended analog RCA from
Blue Jeans and will try to improve the digital out of SBT following
your recommendations.

About the analog instability, what's annoying for me is that I am using
the analog as reference point to measure the quality improvement of the
digital.

What I noticed yesterday is that the difference btw digital/analog is
very audible with more demanding titles, like the choirs of Mozart's
Requiem for instance. With piano (Nocturnes of Chopin) or violin
chamber ensembles (Vivaldi), this is much less perceptible, probably
because there is less "cross interference" between instruments what
makes it less sensitive to fuzzyness.

That's what makes the listening so difficult: objectivate SQ based on
subjective perception. IMO, interferences are not audible on every kind
of music.

Filtering of AC input was also something I was thinking about. The
lower cost approach is a good tip and I think I will also give it a
try.

Best regards,

Emmanuel


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[infundibolo]

Just received sbooster, made only one listening session through speakers
(analog out from touch). First impression very positive, to my ears the
sound is warmer, cant tell about any detail loss at the moment. I don't
trust in A/B blind test, i will make some more listening of well know
flac24 recordings with headphone and see if i'm missing something.
Also not tried with SB3.

touch analog out connected via DNM reson to exposure pre/power and
totem forest speakers. For headphones i will use Jfloat and senn HD25.

I' also building a linear ps, as i don't like to spend 100€ or more for
a ready build one.

And yes, its my first post.


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[Tom186]

Hi everybody,

I have been playing around with various power supplies for my SBT in
recent weeks, and thought I'd share my experiences here.

(My setup is a pretty revealing one, bordering on the analytical, but
still musical enough: SBT fed via Ethernet from a WLAN bridge. All
"Soundcheck" mods applied with the exception of the Vol100 mod which I
find too harsh. SBT digital-out into an rDAC, into a Krell 300 iL
(modded with better caps), into NHT speakers (modded with Bybees and
better internal cables). Power-wise, the digital stage is fed from a PS
Audio P300 power supply, and the amp is on a massive industrial
isolation transformer. Cabling by Elrod, Rosinante Pursang, Harmonic
Technology and DIY)

A few of my experiences in no particular order:

* Actually, I could live okay with just the SBT stock power supply
plugged into my P300 power conditioner. Treble is okay though wooly,
mids are okay, just the bass is not all that extended. Overall, the
presentation is somewhat unfocused and muddled when compared to a
high-end CD player. Not sure whether this is due to the DC power that
goes into the SBT, or whether the SBT stock supply simply contaminates
power for everybody else, i.e. my rDAC.

* Yes, the SBooster added to the stock power supply makes a huge
difference. Bass is extended, treble is neater and a little more
pronounced (not always a good thing), dynamics are improved. I perceive
mid-range as a little harsher than before ... this is something I have
observed with network filters before. Still, on balance, this was a
no-brainer improvement in my system.

* I then tried the linear power supply that you can order together with
the SBooster ("Best of Two Worlds" PSU for 140 Euros). I must say that I
had an initial crush on this setup ... the combo sounded clearer and
more transparent than anything I had listened to before. After a while,
though, listening became fatiguing. In my setup, the whole frequency
spectrum is tilted towards treble. Break-in did not improve things. A
number of recordings sounded harsh no matter what I did. Lower midrange
was just a tiny bit washed-out.

* The linear power supply operated without the SBooster is clearly even
worse; no sense losing time on this setup.

* The solution I now have is superior to all of those above. I bought
an extremely high-quality, medical-grade switching (!) 5V, 2A power
supply from an electronics store (around 55 or 60 Euros), and plugged
the SBooster into it. This is a very quiet supply. Now everything is
extraordinarily well balanced. Strong bass but not overbearing and
well-controlled, dynamic and liquid midrange, all the detail is there
(and I am a sucker for detail!), spatial imaging with a "Wow"-effect.
Nobody seems to hiss or spit into microphones anymore.

* I tried this same setup, but without the SBooster: Still good, but
not as good. Not all that extended, a bit woolier. On the plus side,
things are a little more liquid = a little less edgy (I am talking
relatives here, both setups are pretty good actually).

* Let's take one step back: At first, things had not sounded all that
great in the 50-Euros-switcher-setup. Treble was not well resolved, and
bass was too heavy and out of proportion. What helped?

a) A better power cord for the switching power supply. I first tried an
exotic super-high-price powercord by Elrod, and yes, that one worked out
rather okay. Dear Trolls: This was just an experiment for baselining!
One does not plug a 1600 Euro powercord into a 60 Euro power supply
into a 200 Euro streamer and leaves it at that. What got surprisingly
close to this setup was a 1m piece of my old stock Krell amp cord, with
high-quality Kimber plugs on both ends, the shielding connected to
ground at the source end only (!), and all the contacts shrubbed really
well. The Elrod cord is still better (more liquid, better dynamics), but
hey.

b) A replacement for the power cable on the DC side proved essential.
The 50-Euro-switcher came with an un-shielded, un-twisted braided
copper run on the DC side, which I swapped for a shielded cable nicked
from an old Toshiba Laptop computer PSU. Around this, another run of
Aluminium foil, surrounded by copper wire, grounded at the source end.
Looks horrible, sounds fantastic.

c) Scanning the room for misbehaving power supplies was important, too.
My system only started to behave REALLY well after I switched off the
Television and DVD player (doh!), and after I replaced the power supply
for my WLAN Adapter (remember, I run a WLAN bridge into the SBT via
Ethernet) with another high-quality switcher (60 Euros). I may also be
the only madman in this group who operates a WLAN adapter on Bybee
filters on both AC power lines ... sorry about this one, but they just
cleaned up things a little more. Whatever these Bybee filters do (on a
good day, I still think they are just resistors in a voodoo shell),
they seem to isolate the WLAN power supply a little more from the rest
of my system, so they do not pollute power lines or the ground all that
much. Some of you will will say that a simple network filter does more
of the same thing, but I disagree, I am trying to avoid network filters
on my lines as they reduce dynamics. Others will say that if you have
Bybees lying around in the first place, you might apply them to the SBT
power supply for greater effect, and I tried. Sounds horrible. I'll
spare you the details.

d) Oh, and I made sure that there was only one ground running into all
of this. This ground is also connected to a water pipe that goes REALLY
deep into the ground.

* I am going to baseline this whole setup against a Teddy Pardo PSU in
the coming days. A package is on its way. I was so overwhelmed with the
quality of that (at 320 Euros rather costly) supply on my rDAC, that I
just had to try. I might also try to plug another SBooster into the
Teddy Pardo PSU for the rDAC ... I'll keep you posted.

Have fun. I realize that parts of this post are highly trollable, and I
do not have time to answer to everything. Just sharing. Try it out by
yourselves,

Thomas


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[Tom186]

Tom186;623645 Wrote:
>
> * I am going to baseline this whole setup against a Teddy Pardo PSU in
> the coming days. A package is on its way. I was so overwhelmed with the
> quality of the (at 320 Euros shipped rather costly) TP supply for my
> rDAC that I just had to try. I might also try to plug another SBooster
> into the Teddy Pardo PSU for the rDAC ... I'll keep you posted.
>

Hi,

I promised an update: the Teddy Pardo PSU for my squeezebox is here,
currently breaking in, so I do not want to say too much. So far,
though, the difference between it and my old solution (high-quality
switching supply with an S-Booster) is subtle at best.

Also bought a second S-Booster and tried it in a couple of places. On
my rDAC, it clearly makes things worse: harsher, less extended. On the
DC side of my WLAN adapter, things are a different story ... I guess
what I am hearing is that the WLAN adapter does not pollute the power
lines all that much anymore, so things are a little less harsh, and a
little less bright.

So this may not be an intended application, but here we go: SBooster on
WLAN adapter works. SBooster on SBT works really well. SBooster on rDAC
does not work at all. YMMV.

Cheers,

Thomas


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[HumanMedia]

Tom186, I'm greatly appreciating your findings. Keep the info coming.


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[johann]

Tom186;624342 Wrote:
> the Teddy Pardo PSU for my squeezebox is here, currently breaking in, so
> I do not want to say too much.

The PSU is breaking in, really?
What is supposed to happen with it during that time?


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[Tom186]

Whether it does anything or not, I can only tell you after a week or so
...

(The manufacturer claims that the sound becomes more liquid/less edgy
during this time. Could be ... I have had this with other equipment
that contains caps, so let's see. Nothing like trying).


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[Tom186]

Hi everybody,

here comes my (I guess final) word on my series of comparisons. The
Teddy Pardo PSU has in fact changed over the last 10 days, it appears
that the sound has become somewhat fuller and richer and possibly
clearer. Not a big change, but anyway, it was important to not evaluate
this thing right out of the box.

Result:

One can imagine that, in some systems, the TP PSU beats my current
setup (the one with the 55-Euro- switching supply and the S-Booster,
see above). The TP PSU provides better clarity overall, and deeper bass
extension.

I did, however, miss a certain musicality. Everything is a little edgy,
the midrange is washed-out when compared even to the stock power
adapter. Again, this may be particular to my system, although I do not
experience the same issue with other sources (Arcam CD player, or Mac
Pro with Amarra into my rDAC, are both non-edgy and well balanced).
I'll mull this over for another day or so, but the TP PSU is probably
going back, and my "DIY" adapter stays.

In the process of trying out all possible combinations, I also tried
the S-Booster between the Teddy Pardo PSU and my SBT. It changed the
sound by a tiny little bit. Rolled-off highs, and a reduction in
overall dynamics. This may be welcome in some systems, but the
magnitude of the change is nothing to write home about. YMMV.

Good luck everybody,

Thomas


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[michael123]

Tom186;626598 Wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> here comes my (I guess final) word on my series of comparisons. The
> Teddy Pardo PSU has in fact changed over the last 10 days, it appears
> that the sound has become somewhat fuller and richer and possibly
> clearer. Not a big change, but anyway, it was important to not evaluate
> this thing right out of the box.
>
> Result:
>
> One can imagine that, in some systems, the TP PSU beats my current
> setup (the one with the 55-Euro- switching supply and the S-Booster,
> see above). The TP PSU provides better clarity overall, and deeper bass
> extension.
>
> I did, however, miss a certain musicality. Everything is a little edgy,
> the midrange is washed-out when compared even to the stock power
> adapter. Again, this may be particular to my system, and other people
> on here have reported quite the opposite, although I have to say that I
> do not experience the same issue with other sources (Arcam CD player, or
> Mac Pro with Amarra into my rDAC, are both non-edgy and well balanced).
> I'll mull this over for another day or so, but the TP PSU is probably
> going back, and my "DIY" adapter stays.
>
> In the process of trying out all possible combinations, I also tried
> the S-Booster between the Teddy Pardo PSU and my SBT. It changed the
> sound by a tiny little bit. Rolled-off highs, and a reduction in
> overall dynamics. This may be welcome in some systems, but the
> magnitude of the change is nothing to write home about. YMMV.
>
> Good luck everybody,
>
> Thomas

Listening few times myself and my friends to Squeezebox/Touch
(plain/moded) with TeddyPardo PSU.. Transporter beats them all :)
FYI
You're wasting too much energy IMHO


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[Tom186]

michael123;626600 Wrote:
> Listening few times myself and my friends to Squeezebox/Touch
> (plain/moded) with TeddyPardo PSU.. Transporter beats them all :)
> FYI
> You're wasting too much energy IMHO

That's a good point, I never tried a Transporter, just marveled at the
raging debates around this issue. Still, I am somewhat married to the
Arcam house sound, hence my attempts to somehow use the rDAC in my
streaming solution ...

But I have to say that no SBT setup I tried beats my other, alternative
source: Macbook Pro with Amarra Junior. (Audionirvana very close
second). That's for another forum, I guess.


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[SilverRS8]

Since it was possible to return the sBooster combination if not
satisfactory I ordered one. Always room and open for improvements
right?

Sound is definitly different than with the standard PSU. Bass is indeed
more extended and the highs are smoother. Some may define this easier
(less analytic) to listen to but making things smoother obviously is at
cost of detail. In fact a little too much loss of detail end hence I
returned it.

I'm using the Touch with a DacMagic and Musical Fidelity M3i amplifier.
Now looking forward to see if the MF M1Dac is an improvement over the
DacMagic...


--
SilverRS8

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Server .
1xTouch, 1xSB3, 1xDuet, 1xRadio, 1xiPhone iPeng, Ubuntu NAS + SBS
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[panosm]

Hello guys. Please be kind to each others opinions..:)
As an engineer, I tune everything I own..:) Well.... I build my own
linear PSU, based actually in a battery charger, using only linear
technology, charging 2 LiIon Cells. From there, an other PSU is
regulating the power down to the 5v the Touch needs. I have no
commercional interest in those things, it is just a hobby. The touch is
connected to a heavily modified benchmark DAC 1 and from there a hand
made danish Pre (holfi Pre NB1) using taralabs the one cables-. My
touch is also modified internally, using shielding on all components.
Well back to the question. There is a huge difference in the sound
quality. If you can hear the difference between the standard PSU and a
good linear PSU, you have to find what is wrong with your other
equimpent.
kind regards
Panos


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[garym]

panosm;656246 Wrote:
>
> Well back to the question. There is a huge difference in the sound
> quality. If you can hear the difference between the standard PSU and a
> good linear PSU, you have to find what is wrong with your other
> equimpent.
> kind regards
> Panos

do you mean "if you CAN'T hear the difference" ????


--
garym

System 1: Vortexbox Appliance (1.5) > SbS 7.5.4 > Transporter, Touch,
Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
System 2: Win7(64) laptop > SbS 7.6.1 > Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery
(all ethernet except Radio and laptop)
Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver
Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD &
SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.6 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag
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[Phil Leigh]

panosm;656246 Wrote:
> Hello guys. Please be kind to each others opinions..:)
> As an engineer, I tune everything I own..:) Well.... I build my own
> linear PSU, based actually in a battery charger, using only linear
> technology, charging 2 LiIon Cells. From there, an other PSU is
> regulating the power down to the 5v the Touch needs. I have no
> commercional interest in those things, it is just a hobby. The touch is
> connected to a heavily modified benchmark DAC 1 and from there a hand
> made danish Pre (holfi Pre NB1) using taralabs the one cables-. My
> touch is also modified internally, using shielding on all components.
> Well back to the question. There is a huge difference in the sound
> quality. If you can hear the difference between the standard PSU and a
> good linear PSU, you have to find what is wrong with your other
> equimpent.
> kind regards
> Panos
This is your opinion... To which you are entitled... However, It is not
a fact.


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103
- full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5),
Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber
8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables
Stax4070+SRM7/II phones
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[adamdea]

Phil Leigh;656293 Wrote:
> This is your opinion... To which you are entitled... However, It is not
> a fact.

Perhaps if you mod a benchmark dac til it doesn't work properly.....


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[Covenant]

I bought an SBooster on a sale or return basis from a UK dealer-I
returned it.It did nothing in my system however I use a decent linear
supply.


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[Nonreality]

I do know that having the spikes on my speakers have upgraded my
listening experience. My damn cat has a much harder time knocking them
over so I can listen to them in the right position. The bi-amping also
makes life a bit more of a problem for him knocking them over, the
leverage thing.


--
Nonreality

-IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.-

HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality
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[callesoroe]

snarlydwarf;571567 Wrote:
> snake oil, especially with the touch.

I put Lime oil on my wireless connections. Sounds much better.... ;)


--
callesoroe

Callesoroe
SB-duet, Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista
speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS),
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[JohnSwenson]

Back on the original point of this thread, a few things I have found out
about the SB devices and power supplies.

The switching supply that comes with the SB3 is abysmal. It emits large
amounts of EMI and sends copious amounts back into the AC mains. Both
the emitted and AC born noise can wreak havoc with stereo systems.
There is some that does make it into the SB and this can cause issues
in the box, but most of what you hear is this extra junk getting into
your system.

Pretty much ANYTHING is better than this.

The Touch has a much better switching supply. Its not perfect, it still
sends a little noise back on the line and radiates a little bit, but it
is WAY better than the SB3's supply.

With the Touch you are in the situation that some linear supplies
actually perform worse than the switcher that comes with it. A linear
is not automatically dead quiet. The transformer has a built in
resonance (which interestingly enough is usually at about the same
frequency as a switching supply). The diodes commonly used emit pulses
of noise, again at the same frequencies, which excite these resonances.
It is certainly possible to use diodes that don't emit the noise, but
they cost a little more, and you can damp the resonance in the
transformer (it takes a resistor and capacitor, about $1.50). How many
linear supplies do this? Strangely enough, not many.

A properly designed linear supply can be better than the one that comes
with the Touch, but unless you measure it you have no idea if it is or
not. Cost has very little to do with it. There are some expensive
supplies that use extremely high quality discrete regulators, but still
shove noise back onto the line. If the rest of the supply is done right
so high frequency noise is not being sent to the regulator a really
high quality regulator is of very little use. If the rest is NOT done
right, the quality regulator will prevent the noise from making its way
into the Touch, but its generally a lot easier and cheaper to prevent it
in the first place.

So the upshot is that the filter thingy is probably pretty much useless
with the Touch. The linear supply may offer a slight improvement over
the Touch supply, but it may not, price is not a guarantor of that. If
NOT implemented correctly it may even be worse.

Personally I build my own linear supply because I know how to build one
that is going to be really good, the emitted and mains noise is
extremely low. It cost about $50 in parts.

If you are going to buy a linear supply you might get lucky and get one
that improves on the one that comes with the Touch, but you may not. I
would make sure you can return it if it doesn't make any improvement.

John S.


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JohnSwenson
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[seanadams]

JohnSwenson;573339 Wrote:
>
>
> The switching supply that comes with the SB3 is abysmal. It emits large
> amounts of EMI and sends copious amounts back into the AC mains. Both
> the emitted and AC born noise can wreak havoc with stereo systems.
> There is some that does make it into the SB and this can cause issues
> in the box, but most of what you hear is this extra junk getting into
> your system.
>
> Pretty much ANYTHING is better than this.

At least two different power supplies shipped with SB3 over the years.
The newer ones are way better. To which are you referring? The Unifive
ones were barely FCC compliant, but the Logitech branded ones were
vastly quieter.


--
seanadams
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[Phil Leigh]

The UniFive ones were certainly not compatible with my AM radios...
The Logitech ones were fine in that respect.


--
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend
Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect
cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything.
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[iPhone]

I chucked my Unifive PS because I thought it was defective (knowing what
I know now, might just have been very dirty) and replaced it with a
linear PS I built. All my other SB3s have Logitech PS.

I also don't see anything from the Switcher reaching the analog outs. I
used AudioDiffMaker to measure a baseline then compared it to using a
linear PS and even a battery. The linear PS graph is identical to the
OEM supply as is the Battery graph.

The Touch also has internal switchers so just eliminating the external
OEM PS isn't going to make much if any difference. Using a 5 VDC
battery as the main supply and using AudioDiffMaker, the analog outputs
are the same. If a battery being about as pure of a DC source as one can
get doesn't make a difference, no inline filter or linear PS is going to
make a "Magical" difference.


--
iPhone

*iPhone*
Media Room:
Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr
6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5
Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide
AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer

Living Room:
Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A
Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1

Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM
Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM
Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio
Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini
Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive
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[JohnSwenson]

seanadams;573355 Wrote:
> At least two different power supplies shipped with SB3 over the years.
> The newer ones are way better. To which are you referring? The Unifive
> ones were just barely FCC compliant, but the Logitech branded ones were
> vastly quieter.
>
> Edit: I still maintain my original position as to how little noise
> actually makes it to the outputs in either case, after the two stages
> of internal regulation.

Hi Sean,
All three of my SB3s have the same PS, they don't say Logitech on them
so they must be the Unifives. I was not aware there was a better one
shipping with some SB3s. The one with the Touch is WAY better.

Yes I agree, on the SB3 I do measure a tiny amount of noise from the
supply inside the box, but thats probably because there is so much
coming from the supply in the first place. On the Touch Even that is
not there. The Touch has extremely quiet supply rails, especially for a
device with a builtin computer. The only issue I've seen is that when
supplying current to an external device there is a little bit of 120Hz
noise on the supply rails. I'm not sure how this is getting through.
The only place it can come from is the supply, but I would expect the
regulators to do an excellent job of getting rid of any 120Hz.

I have tried very carefully to state that advantages of going with a
linear supply are related to less noise getting into other parts of the
system.

John S.


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[Mnyb]

*couch* was not the old 230V SB3 supply even worse


--
Mnyb

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps
SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center,
and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4
Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery)
I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to
control this
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[garym]

run don't walk from this....


--
garym
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