[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A nice review of the Roon software

[ralphpnj]

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/roon-11-computer-audio-playback-software/

A very thorough and pretty good review of the Roon 1.1 software, at
least until the reviewer gets to the part about how Roon sounds. Note my
comments (under Ralph Pantuso).

In any event, the review is worth reading.

I presently use a combination of iPeng (phone or tablet) or Moose/Muso
(Windows computers) to access and control my various Squeezeboxen (love
those Dutch plurals) and from what I can gather Roon seems to have
access to different and better online resources than Muso, which relies
on primarily on the LMS database itself and Last.fm. Muso does have very
similar display and sorting as Roon but for all that to work effectively
the audio files have to have very good and hopefully accurate tags and
cover art. And of course the more fields the tags have the more
different ways there are to sort. One nice feature of Muso is the
ability to quickly access any jpg, pdf and txt files that are located in
the same folder as the audio files (or a "scans" subfolder). Very useful
for reading scanned liner notes. Muso will also display all the other
albums by the artist along with those by "similar" artists in one's LMS
music library.

I use Moose because it, by far, performs the fastest searches of the LMS
database and returns results of the search term for artists, albums and
songs. And as I said, the searches are way faster than done by LMS,
iPeng or Muso.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[audiomuze]

Bought a lifetime Roon license and haven't looked back. Currently using
Squeezelite running on Wandboard Quads as transports. Once Roon Bridge
is released I doubt I'd continue using Squeezelite. Roon aside, LMS
remains the best and most versatile music server I've ever encountered.
Long live LMS and Squeezelite.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[ralphpnj]

audiomuze wrote:
> Bought a lifetime Roon license and haven't looked back. Currently using
> Squeezelite running on Wandboard Quads as transports. Once Roon Bridge
> is released I doubt I'd continue using Squeezelite. Roon aside, LMS
> remains the best and most versatile music server I've ever encountered.
> Long live LMS and Squeezelite.
>
> I still have a few factory sealed SBT's ... anyone interested in buying
> them?

I don't mean to be a pest but I do have a few simple questions about
using Roon versus using LMS along with programs like Muso.

First are you familiar with Muso?

If no then we're done.

If yes, then how does Roon compare with a program like Muso?

Thanks!



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[audiomuze]

ralphpnj wrote:
> First are you familiar with Muso?I am, I have a perpetual license somewhere in an email as I was one of
the original testers. I haven't used it in some time though as I'm
principally a Linux user.

Roon basically embodies just about everything I could want from a music
server, it's metadata rich, it can use its own metadata or yours or
both, leverages the metadata to enable exploration of your music, it's
fast, enables filtering of browsing/playback by multiple criteria, has
artist biographies, album reviews, lyrics etc. and streams bit-perfect
audio.

I saw your comment re wishing Roon had a plugin for LMS. Truth is it
doesn't need it, just download and install it and point it to your
library as a Watched Folder (don't use Organised folder unless you want
it to move your files). Terminate LMS and enable Squeezebox support in
Roon and your SBx players will appear within Roon. 14 day free trial,
nothing to lose.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[ralphpnj]

audiomuze wrote:
> I am, I have a perpetual license somewhere in an email as I was one of
> the original testers. I haven't used it in some time though as I'm
> principally a Linux user.
>
> Roon basically embodies just about everything I could want from a music
> server, it's metadata rich, it can use its own metadata or yours or
> both, leverages the metadata to enable exploration of your music, it's
> fast, enables filtering of browsing/playback by multiple criteria, has
> artist biographies, album reviews, lyrics etc. and streams bit-perfect
> audio.
>
> I saw your comment re wishing Roon had a plugin for LMS. Truth is it
> doesn't need it, just download and install it and point it to your
> library as a Watched Folder (don't use Organised folder unless you want
> it to move your files). Terminate LMS and enable Squeezebox support in
> Roon and your SBx players will appear within Roon. 14 day free trial,
> nothing to lose.


Thanks for the quick reply and the useful information. I may give the
free trail a try and see how well Roon handles my rather large music
library. Basically what really intrigues my about Roon is the rich and
robust metadata along with, as you so nicely put it, the leveraging of
that metadata enhance one's listening experience, an area where Muso,
though pretty good, still falls well short.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[adyc]

Roon do not handle classical music as well as LMS with custom
browse/scan plugins. They also acknowledge this weakness. Unless they
improve on this aspect, I will stick with LMS.


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[audiomuze]

ralphpnj wrote:
> ...handles my rather large music library. Basically what really
> intrigues my about Roon is the rich and robust metadata along with, as
> you so nicely put it, the leveraging of that metadata enhance one's
> listening experience, an area where Muso, though pretty good, still
> falls well short.What do you term "rather large"? I'm running 22.6k albums/ 334k tracks
located on an Arch Linux based i3. Roon's running on win server 2012 R2
on an old Asus P5E64 WS Pro board (iX38 Intel ICH9R chipset) with 8GB
DDR3-1333, Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 and it's very responsive.
Searches are a lot quicker than via iPeng and faster than LMS. I used
to keep LMS' database on a ramdisk and performance was great.

I don't think there's anything out there that delivers as rich and
immersive an experience iro leveraging metadata to enhance your
listening experience. As a simple example LMS is great at surfacing
links between artists and tracks if you've captured that data. With
Roon you don't have to have captured that data... more often than not
Roon knows who's appeared on a track so you end up finding instances
where a favourite artist has appeared elsewhere in your library that you
had no idea of.

A pet hate I have iro LMS and all the wifi apps is that when you browse
an artist you're presented with a long mixed bag laundry list of
everything they've appeared in that's surfaced by your tags - their
albums, appearances, compilations, bootlegs all mixed together in one
glorious mess...good luck finding an album you're after if you have a
lot of compilations. Roon sorts that lot and presents them on the same
screen differentiating between main albums, singles and EPs, appearances
on other artist's albums and then compilations. I gave up asking for
this in LMS.

It also lists Similar To, Followed by, Influenced by and Associated with
that appears in your library (which can incorporate Tidal albums
seamlessly).

There's work to do on Classical music and metadata editing/
customization within Roon's database and it's underway...I've no doubt
the end result will be fantastic...the Roon team are music lovers and
they get it.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[ralphpnj]

audiomuze wrote:
> What do you term "rather large"? I'm running 22.6k albums/ 334k tracks
> located on an Arch Linux based i3. Roon's running on win server 2012 R2
> on an old Asus P5E64 WS Pro board (iX38 Intel ICH9R chipset) with 8GB
> DDR3-1333, Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 and it's very responsive. As
> soon as the Linux build is released I'll be running Roon on the same i3
> that my library is stored on. Searches are a lot quicker than via iPeng
> and faster than LMS. I used to keep LMS' database on a ramdisk and
> performance was great.
>
> I don't think there's anything out there that delivers as rich and
> immersive an experience iro leveraging metadata to enhance your
> listening experience. As a simple example LMS is great at surfacing
> links between artists and tracks if you've captured that data. With
> Roon you don't have to have captured that data... more often than not
> Roon knows who's appeared on a track so you end up finding instances
> where a favourite artist has appeared elsewhere in your library that you
> had no idea of.
>
> A pet hate I have iro LMS and all the wifi apps is that when you browse
> an artist you're presented with a long mixed bag laundry list of
> everything they've appeared in that's surfaced by your tags - their
> albums, appearances, compilations, bootlegs all mixed together in one
> glorious mess...good luck finding an album you're after if you have a
> lot of compilations. Roon sorts that lot and presents them on the same
> screen differentiating between main albums, singles and EPs, appearances
> on other artist's albums and then compilations. I gave up asking for
> this in LMS.
>
> It also lists Similar To, Followed by, Influenced by and Associated with
> that appears in your library (which can incorporate Tidal albums
> seamlessly).
>
> There's work to do on Classical music and metadata editing/
> customization within Roon's database and it's underway...I've no doubt
> the end result will be fantastic...the Roon team are music lovers and
> they get it.

Thanks for the very informative post. You answered many of my questions.
And for the record, my music library has 42k albums and 550k tracks,
mostly flac with almost 4K of the albums high resolution. I will give
Roon a try in the near future.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[audiomuze]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Thanks for the very informative post. You answered many of my questions.
> And for the record, my music library has 42k albums and 550k tracks....Bloody hell, and I thought I had issues :P

Given the size of your library I'd suggest you point Roon to a
subsection to get a fewel for it during the trial period. It analyses
the audio stream in every file to be able to recognise it even if
renamed at a later point, calculate replaygain etc. for itself. That
analysis will take some time in a library that large. The good news is
you can still use it whilst all that's happening...it's just not as
responsive as it is once the analysis is complete. My guess would be
that if the analysis is done on a local machine housing the music it'd
be a lot quicker than over a network (which is the case in my present
setup).



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[ralphpnj]

audiomuze wrote:
> Bloody hell, and I thought I had issues :P

Oh you still have issues, it's just that I have bigger issues :)

audiomuze wrote:
> Given the size of your library I'd suggest you point Roon to a
> subsection to get a fewel for it during the trial period. It analyses
> the audio stream in every file to be able to recognise it even if
> renamed at a later point, calculate replaygain etc. for itself. That
> analysis will take some time in a library that large. The good news is
> you can still use it whilst all that's happening...it's just not as
> responsive as it is once the analysis is complete. My guess would be
> that if the analysis is done on a local machine housing the music it'd
> be a lot quicker than over a network (which is the case in my present
> setup).

If and when I do give Roon test spin I will install it on the computer
that has my music library on it. In fact, I have a full backup of my
music library on a different computer from the one that currently runs
LMS so I might try installing Roon on that computer to do the hands on
testing.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Zombie]

So I can install Roon on my NAS and forget about LMS?


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[Mnyb]

Zombie wrote:
> So I can install Roon on my NAS and forget about LMS?

Not yet , awaiting a Linux version before i try .

Btw can some expand on have the sofware works headless/remotely ie the
interface is not on the machine running it ?

Web UI other UI and ofcourse apps . And is there any setup chore that
must be done from a desktop UI ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[mdconnelly]

Have to concur with Audiomuze and Audiotic... bought the Roon lifetime
and love it, both for what it is today, and what it is rapidly evolving
into. The fact that I can use Roon with my multiple Squeezeboxes is
pretty amazing and was enough for me to jump on the Roon bandwagon back
in December.

The Roon rich metadata coupled with an extremely well-designed UI
changes how I listen to music and makes it far more about the music and
artists, and far less about the software and technology. And it has
great integration with Tidal if you use that.

But, there are things Roon cannot yet do that are important to note:

-- it cannot (yet) stream radio
-- there is no phone app and their iPad app will not work on older iPads
(which, of course, is what I have :-(
-- using Roon with Squeezebox playback cannot be synced with Roon
playback to other non-SB devices

I've also used Muso and was quite intrigued by it's approach to music
organization. I think it is an excellent front-end to LMS and far
closer to what Roon does than any other music-player I've seen. It is
quite elegant in the way it relies solely on music tags and files in the
music folders. But, that is on Windows and isn't available on other
OSes or on phones or tablets (well, I suppose it would work on a Windows
tablet). So, at best, Muso is just another tool in an arsenal of tools
(LMS, iPeng, Moose, etc...) that make using LMS better.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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[Audiotic]

Mnyb wrote:
> Not yet , awaiting a Linux version before i try .
>
> Btw can some expand on have the sofware works headless/remotely ie the
> interface is not on the machine running it ?
>
> Web UI other UI and ofcourse apps . And is there any setup chore that
> must be done from a desktop UI ?

Roon runs on a 2011 MacMini ((8GB, SSD) with the music on a firewire
attatched Drobo (just like an external HD thus). This MacMini is
headless, and the Roon app on my iPad just controls the application on
the Mini.
Is this clear?



Marantz NA-11S1 PCM/DSD streamer with Squeezebox Touch front-end -
Marantz UD9004 / AV8801 / MM8003 & CI Audio D-200 MkII (front only) -
Nubert NuVero & R.E.L. R-528SE - Siltech & ProLine custom made Silver &
Gold, XLR where possible
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[Mnyb]

Ok that was clear



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[audiomuze]

Roon 1.2, incorporating full Linux/x64 and Linux/armv7hf support (as
Music Server and as transport/ endpoint), Internet Radio, iPhone and
Android apps and synchronised playback across all endpoints grouped into
a zone (regardless of whether it's a DAC, an AVR etc. etc..



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[Julf]

audiomuze wrote:
> Roon 1.2, incorporating full Linux/x64 and Linux/armv7hf support (as
> Music Server and as transport/ endpoint), Internet Radio, iPhone and
> Android apps and synchronised playback across all endpoints grouped into
> a zone (regardless of whether it's a DAC, an AVR etc. etc..

What protocols does it use?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[audiomuze]

Julf wrote:
> What protocols does it use?'RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport)' (https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT)

Roon supports many different kinds of output devices, including:
- RoonReady Networked devices.
- Connected outputs, including USB DACs, sound cards, and built-in
outputs
- AirPlay devices
- Logitech's Squeezebox devices
- Meridian Audio's networked endpoints
- HQPlayer



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[Mnyb]

Afaik they don't sync between different supported hardware ?

You can sync up all your squeezeboxes or all your meridian endpoints or
auralics or sonic orbiters sound cards USB DAC's etc .

Still on the fence to even try yet :confused: they do have stiff
hardware demands for a music server and UI software ,they strongly
recommend Ssd drives etc , the intruding part is their enriched metadata
an interlinking and reviews etc ( why that demands high end game level
graphics beats me , is it not the content that's most important ? ) and
some other niggles to work out

Was it not this direction the ickstream guys where hinting at . There
are several levels of metadata above the file tag level first your own
library and then the culture you live in also the culture and context
around the music and when and how it's was created .
If you are a music historian you can probably abuse the tag system and
custom tag and custom browse and after an incredible amount of work end
up with some static solution that needs constant maintanence and now
your tags are bent out of shape to suit your exact software and hardware
solution .

I find the basic idea of not needing you tags that much to make a nice
experience of your music "above the tag level" very interesting .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105146

[audiomuze]

Mnyb wrote:
> Afaik they don't sync between different supported hardware ?
>
> You can sync up all your squeezeboxes or all your meridian endpoints or
> auralics or sonic orbiters sound cards USB DAC's etc Nope, with the release of Roon Bridge you can now sync any devices on
your network.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mnyb]

audiomuze wrote:
> Nope, with the release of Roon Bridge you can now sync any devices on
> your network.

Cool ! Can it be installed under Linux too and run headless ? That must
be some work to get to work if you have squeezeboxes , meridian gear and
some AirPlay stuff and a bunch of others :/ the QC phase must have been
serusily frustrating :)

Oh well interesting times it is .

I do understand Julf there , why not a really good universal media
endpoint standard ? It would benefit everyone .

To add to that I would love an universal digital active speaker protocol
, so we can get that thing off the ground ( now it's a niche ).

Maybe they could merge . Oh sorry of topic . I google aes67 somewhere
else .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[SBGK]

why is this thread in Audiophiles forum ?

Thought it was well established that software doesn't affect sq.

Should be in General discussion or 3rd party software.

eg
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104044-Roon-a-SqueezeBox-ecosystem-alternative



Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/
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[Mnyb]

SBGK wrote:
> why is this thread in Audiophiles forum ?
>
> Thought it was well established that software doesn't affect sq.
>
> Should be in General discussion or 3rd party software.
>
> eg
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104044-Roon-a-SqueezeBox-ecosystem-alternative

Suggest history , the current roon userbase , the band of early adopters
you see on thier forum are all about soundquality and messing around
with thier computers as players . That will probably change when the
amount of network devices gain more ground .
Roon started early on with great support for local playback , something
that's not even a core function in LMS , it's a plugin :)

The idea is probably to also compete with jriver etc for a nice computer
direct to hifi interface , many are still stuck there .

So the fellow that started the tread come at it rom an audiophile
perspective ? Roon has that in thier bag to not compromise audiquality
when not necessary and good format support . Sonos don't fit and apple
certainly don't with their weird 16/48 botched resampling on many
devices . Just like squeezebox and LMS . You can have good sound and
good interface and reasonable prices .

But it is more than that . Roon is new competitor in distributed whole
home audio , ( the current early adopters misses the potential somewhat
) hope they gan a wider userbase . I don't think that will hurt LMS ,
the whole niche needs more interest .

The tread could be move to general discussion I agree .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[garym]

Mnyb wrote:
> Suggest history , the current roon userbase , the band of early adopters
> you see on thier forum are all about soundquality and messing around
> with thier computers as players . That will probably change when the
> amount of network devices gain more ground .
> Roon started early on with great support for local playback , something
> that's not even a core function in LMS , it's a plugin :)
>
> The idea is probably to also compete with jriver etc for a nice computer
> direct to hifi interface , many are still stuck there .
>
> So the fellow that started the tread come at it rom an audiophile
> perspective ? Roon has that in thier bag to not compromise audiquality
> when not necessary and good format support . Sonos don't fit and apple
> certainly don't with their weird 16/48 botched resampling on many
> devices . Just like squeezebox and LMS . You can have good sound and
> good interface and reasonable prices .
>
> But it is more than that . Roon is new competitor in distributed whole
> home audio , ( the current early adopters misses the potential somewhat
> ) hope they gan a wider userbase . I don't think that will hurt LMS ,
> the whole niche needs more interest .
>
> The tread could be move to general discussion I agree .

And "audiophiles" (used in the original sense and not in the audiophool
sense) also care deeply about the music itself, the artists, the
relationships across artists and genres, etc. And roon has a very nice
interaction with databases that provide a rich source of information
about artists/albums/tracks that typically far exceeds what one finds in
their own metadata tags.

But I agree, none of this changes the fact that roon and LMS can both
provide bitperfect output to my DAC. I'm having fun testing roon a bit
but I'm also a bit bothered with their forum, which contains way too
much audiophool postings (e.g., I hear more "air" and "dimension" in
playback with ver 1.2 of roon vs. ver 1.1 of roon). That said, the
company folks and other users are very helpful in terms of things that
do matter in terms of settings, usage, responding to bugs, etc. I do
appreciate what they are trying to achieve.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mnyb]

garym wrote:
> And "audiophiles" (used in the original sense and not in the audiophool
> sense) also care deeply about the music itself, the artists, the
> relationships across artists and genres, etc. And roon has a very nice
> interaction with databases that provide a rich source of information
> about artists/albums/tracks that typically far exceeds what one finds in
> their own metadata tags.
>
> But I agree, none of this changes the fact that roon and LMS can both
> provide bitperfect output to my DAC. I'm having fun testing roon a bit
> but I'm also a bit bothered with their forum, which contains way too
> much audiophool postings (e.g., I hear more "air" and "dimension" in
> playback with ver 1.2 of roon vs. ver 1.1 of roon). That said, the
> company folks and other users are very helpful in terms of things that
> do matter in terms of settings, usage, responding to bugs, etc. I do
> appreciate what they are trying to achieve.

In the end its the quality of what they actually offer that’s matter .

A worrying trend indeed ,some dev actually wasted electrons supporting
jplay ( a well known foo software http://www.jriver.com/jplay.html ) but
they actually have dev resources to waste ? if they manage to build a
good product anyway thats good .

I have to build myself a new server first it's about time :) Some NUC
with virtualization i think then i'm actually able to run roon and LMS
and more



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[mdconnelly]

I've been running Roon and LMS for several months... They cannot coexist
which means having to shut one down to use the other. I'll tell you
that switching between them is a royal pain in that it occasionally (but
not always) leaves the Squeezebox end-points unrecognized by either Roon
nor LMS requiring a Squeezebox power cycle to fix. I suspect there is
a sequence that I could follow that might avoid that, but I've yet to
discover it (admittedly not taken the time to really explore it).

But ultimately, my intent is to determine if I will be happy just using
Roon. v1.2 has now made that a much more viable possibility and so
I've been running Roon exclusively for the last few days. Time will
tell...



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mnyb]

mdconnelly wrote:
> I've been running Roon and LMS for several months... They cannot coexist
> which means having to shut one down to use the other. I'll tell you
> that switching between them is a royal pain in that it occasionally (but
> not always) leaves the Squeezebox end-points unrecognized by either Roon
> nor LMS requiring a Squeezebox power cycle to fix. I suspect there is
> a sequence that I could follow that might avoid that, but I've yet to
> discover it (admittedly not taken the time to really explore it).
>
> But ultimately, my intent is to determine if I will be happy just using
> Roon. v1.2 has now made that a much more viable possibility and so
> I've been running Roon exclusively for the last few days. Time will
> tell...

I can power cycle all my squeezeboxes are aceesible , thats why i intend
to maybe start learning about wm's so can have virtual servers to start
and stop , many folks do that with several instances of LMS .

Yes you need to shutdown LMS first .

Now that you used it for a while what do you think pros and cons so far
?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105146

[audiomuze]

I wouldn't worry about the Roon dev team pursuing trivial developments,
they know their oats.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105146

[mlsstl]

I've looked at Roon and am not sure I'm interested. Its two strong
points seem to be an attractive graphic interface and the ability to
bring its own, additional metadata (tags) to the party.

The first item is kind of a "meh" for me -- I play my stereo in order to
listen to music and the LMS/Squeezebox system works great for this. The
latter seems interesting, since it appears it'd add more info to what
I've collected in my own system, but then I'm currently not having too
hard a time finding the music I want to listen to.

So that's where I stand right now -- some interesting possibilities but
it hardly seems worth a $120 annual subscription or $500 fee up front.

Have I missed something?


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[garym]

mlsstl wrote:
> I've looked at Roon and am not sure I'm interested. Its two strong
> points seem to be an attractive graphic interface and the ability to
> bring its own, additional metadata (tags) to the party.
>
> The first item is kind of a "meh" for me -- I play my stereo in order to
> listen to music and the LMS/Squeezebox system works great for this. The
> latter seems interesting, since it appears it'd add more info to what
> I've collected in my own system, but then I'm currently not having too
> hard a time finding the music I want to listen to.
>
> So that's where I stand right now -- some interesting possibilities but
> it hardly seems worth a $120 annual subscription or $500 fee up front.
>
> Have I missed something?

I'd say no, you haven't missed anything. Perhaps the idea that it is a
server that is agnostic to many different player endpoints but is
fortunately NOT generic/not useful DLNA.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

garym wrote:
> I'd say no, you haven't missed anything. Perhaps the idea that it is a
> server that is agnostic to many different player endpoints but is
> fortunately NOT generic/not useful DLNA.

But you are still at the mercy of a provider of a proprietary system. :(



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[audiomuze]

Julf wrote:
> But you are still at the mercy of a provider of a proprietary system. :( Yes, you are insofar as the software is concerned. From a hardware
perspective you're free to make your own decisions and from an
underlying audio library perspective Roon leaves all that untouched...so
at the end of the day your only exposure is loss of functionality if
Roon was no longer supported.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mnyb]

garym wrote:
> I'd say no, you haven't missed anything. Perhaps the idea that it is a
> server that is agnostic to many different player endpoints but is
> fortunately NOT generic/not useful DLNA.

Yes that ambition to play on almost any endpoint (expect upnp/dlna)

Julf wrote:
> But you are still at the mercy of a provider of a proprietary system. :(

As always, the mother of all proprietary systems iTunes for example :(

I also dislike proprietary systems as much as anyone else :( ,but these
guys have no hardware to sell to finance the software as SLIM/Logitech
did so charge for their software they must if they want to have a
business .

Another thing happened metadata of any quality has been monetised ,
thats why free projekt struggle to get lyrics pictures reviews and other
stuff .
A large chunk of the ROON fee goes to metadata providers .
If a comercial program show your cover image from you files thats
probably ok but what if it subtitutes with a higher rez one from the
internet ? thst probably some IP rigth there .

My pow i do like nice aditional data when i listen i have my iPad nearby
and using iPeng with suitable plugins read bios and have a clance at
credits pictures etc , is that the artist info plugin that gives me that
.

They provide SDK for hardware manufacturers for RAAT ok but thats not
really free software ? Why cant any hobbyist roll their own player .

Logitech could grove a bussines around mysqueezebox.com by selling that
acess to hardware manufacturers making replacement squeezeboxes . or
maybe the protocols used in our boxes starting showing thier age ?

I also whished that you could source players endpionts software and
servers indepedently , but then you fall down to upnp .

LMS do provide that sort of :)
and its suprisingly resiliant ? I wonder why we survive ,of course all
the free time entusiast use to maintain the system especially Mherger .
I start to develop a theory that we are on the backburner rather than
abandoned , maybe Logitech keeps the infrastructure just in case and it
probably provide some small revenue from service providers .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[mdconnelly]

I grew up listening to music by first selecting what I wanted to listen
to and then cueing it up. As my collection grew, I would occasionally
flip through my bins of albums, later CDs, seeing if something hit my
fancy. I organized albums by genre and even had a bin of "favorites".
This worked fine when my total collection numbered in the hundreds at
most. Fast forward 40 years... I now have several thousand albums, most
now in digital form either by ripping and tagging or buying online and
downloading.

Until Roon, my approach to what to listen to, however, was still the
same -- either first picking what I wanted to listen to or flipping
through the virtual bins. LMS/iPeng made it easy to flip, but with out
any added value other than the choice to select by genre, album title,
artist or favorites. Quicker by far that searching the stacks, but
still conceptually the same.

Roon has taken it a major step forward by reinventing the music
discovery process enabled by their slick UI and depth of metadata. In
truth, I still often know what I want to listen to and just select that
within Roon - no better or worse than with LMS/iPeng. But, when I sit
down to peruse my music on my iPad or laptop via Roon, I learn far more
about what I'm listening to and, more importantly, rediscover albums
that I've long forgotten (or discover new music on Tidal). This greatly
enriches and broadens my music listening experience.

It did not take me long to feel that Roon lifetime was worth the price.
I've spent far more on far dumber audio-investments.

In my opinion, Slimdevices and the Squeezebox revolutionized how we
collect, manage and play music. Roon has revolutionized how we listen
to it.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 Radio & heavy use of iPeng on
various iThings)
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[mlsstl]

Thanks for the insight, mdconnelly. I've got over 5,500 albums in my
collection with 57,000 some-odd tracks and rarely have a problem finding
what I want.

I suspect Roon is certainly a boon when one is exploring connections one
didn't know about or wandering idly around. And, I appreciate that if
one is an enthusiastic reader of liner notes, artist & composer bios and
the like, that Roon would be a helpful advance.

Me? I just mainly listen to the music, and typically don't have a strong
interest in knowing that this composer wrote this song in memory of when
his dog ran away when he was age 10 or that artist played rhythm guitar
on someone else's 1956 one-hit wonder.

I will sometimes "lose" a song -- have the tune stuck in my head but for
the life of me can't remember the artist or title. It'd be nice to have
something to help with that, but I'm not quite sure how Roon would work
in that area. And, I'm not sure its worth $120 a year when this
situation pops up 2 or 3 times a year.

Still looking for something about Roon that really grabs my attention.


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[pablolie]

My music listening is typically based on my looking through folders, and
remembering "oh wow totally forgot about this". I also regularly erase
many playlists I got bored off and kinda start from scratch. I do have a
folder with "Best of" micro-playlists for all my age long favorites, and
regularly use the micro-playlists to compile new versions of the old and
the new.

I haven't come across a piece of software that kinda supports my
unpredictably moody music listening habits, and have always founf the
problem with playlists and big libraries is one ends up with too many of
them. And don't you ever change the drive name for your music. Mine is
still called "500G" even though these days it's a 4TB drive. :-D



...pablo
Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04
+ LMS 7.9
System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval
Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem
Element Fire
Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem
DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub
Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado
PS500e/Shure 1540
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[cliveb]

The one thing I miss about the days of physical media is that my CDs
used to be in a great big wall rack arranged alphabetically like books.
I would wander up to it and let my eyes do a sort of "random walk",
flitting around the CD spines until I happened upon an album that took
my fancy. No digital organisation mechanism I've seen supports that kind
of model, nor can I envisage any interface that would be capable of
doing it. These days I tend to just scroll up and down the list of
artists until I find someone I want to hear. Sometimes it's really
difficult to make a decision.

One other thing. Sometimes I'll be in the middle of listening to one
album and another album pops into my head that I want to hear next. It
may be related, but other times nothing at all to do with the current
one. From then on, while I still want to hear the rest of the current
album, there's a feeling of impatience because I'm looking forward to
the next one. Anyone else like that, or am I just weird?



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

cliveb wrote:
> One other thing. Sometimes I'll be in the middle of listening to one
> album and another album pops into my head that I want to hear next. It
> may be related, but other times nothing at all to do with the current
> one. From then on, while I still want to hear the rest of the current
> album, there's a feeling of impatience because I'm looking forward to
> the next one. Anyone else like that, or am I just weird?

I have that pretty often - a feature I keep wishing for is a "playlist
stack" where I can put the current playlist on hold, start a new
temporary one, and then return back to the original one at some point.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[epoch1970]

cliveb wrote:
> ... nor can I envisage any interface that would be capable of doing it.
I had an idea that a coffee table book, one album per page with a
printed bar code to play or add to the playlist would be a nice,
relaxed, and nearly offline interface to LMS.
Having experienced an intolerable amount of pain achieving mass
generation of reasonably good looking PDFs, and given the design of most
hand-held barcode readers, I left the idea at that.

There is also an alternative with NFC tags that you could stick to
booklets. More expensive and longer deployment, but interesting IMHO. I
remember a post years ago in DIY about an LMS system driven by NFC tags.



4 SB 3 • Libratone Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • Squeezebox Server
7.9 (linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by
bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

epoch1970 wrote:
> I had an idea that a coffee table book, one album per page with a
> printed bar code to play or add to the playlist would be a nice,
> relaxed, and nearly offline interface to LMS.
> Having experienced an intolerable amount of pain achieving mass
> generation of reasonably good looking PDFs, and given the design of most
> hand-held barcode readers, I left the idea at that.
>
> There is also an alternative with NFC tags that you could stick to
> booklets. More expensive and longer deployment, but interesting IMHO. I
> remember a post years ago in DIY about an LMS system driven by NFC tags.

How about a cheap USB vinyl player, and a RPi that analyzes the music to
identify the track and album in order to play the digital version? :)

I did start a project to interface an old electromechanical jukebox, but
realized how limited the choice of music would be, unless I changed all
the labels to software-controllable displays - and that would have
turned it into a rather extensive project...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[epoch1970]

Julf wrote:
> How about a cheap USB vinyl player, and a RPi that analyzes the music to
> identify the track and album in order to play the digital version? :)
I'd rather use a microphone. Then you'd be free to use any old
gramophone to control your stereo. And if you could sing the song,
perhaps the Pi could recognize that too, just in case the gramo breaks
down. Success!?



4 SB 3 • Libratone Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • Squeezebox Server
7.9 (linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by
bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

epoch1970 wrote:
> I'd rather use a microphone. Then you'd be free to use any old
> gramophone to control your stereo. And if you could sing the song,
> perhaps the Pi could recognize that too, just in case the gramo breaks
> down. Success!?

Great idea! Perhaps leave a recorder or harmonica next to your stereo?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Jeff07971]

epoch1970 wrote:
> I'd rather use a microphone. Then you'd be free to use any old
> gramophone to control your stereo. And if you could sing the song,
> perhaps the Pi could recognize that too, just in case the gramo breaks
> down. Success!?

Isn't that just integrating LMS and Shazam ? :)



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3,Receiver,SqueezePlayer,PiCorePlayer
x3,Wandboard
*Server:* LMS Version: 7.9.0 - 1453293926 on Centos 7 VM on ESXi 6 on HP
N54L
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[epoch1970]

Jeff07971 wrote:
> Isn't that just integrating LMS and Shazam ? :)

Damn. I was trying to avoid plagiarizing Alexa and didn't see the
obvious. I don't know how Shazam reacts to the harmonica or to beat
boxing, though.
I'm sure we could have a plugin for that.



4 SB 3 • Libratone Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • Squeezebox Server
7.9 (linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by
bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon
Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael
Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by
Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin
Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[garym]

cliveb wrote:
> One other thing. Sometimes I'll be in the middle of listening to one
> album and another album pops into my head that I want to hear next. It
> may be related, but other times nothing at all to do with the current
> one. From then on, while I still want to hear the rest of the current
> album, there's a feeling of impatience because I'm looking forward to
> the next one. Anyone else like that, or am I just weird?

I do exactly the same.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[mdconnelly]

Flipping through albums on a shelf is a physical effort that I often
miss (CDs not so much). Trying to emulate that on a phone will never
work well. Doing so on a laptop or tablet comes closer with software
that will display reasonable-sized album art that you can scroll
through. I always liked that about LMS in fact. iPeng also does this
reasonably well. Roon is even better with larger artwork and quick
navigation. I recently picked up the large iPad Pro - very nice for
this purpose.

Maybe once the 3D glasses and headsets become better, our personal
holodeck will allow a similar immersion. Still, something is lost in
the process.

On the other hand, I can remember many times when I just didn't have (or
make) the time to mess with physical media... I believe I listened to a
lot more FM radio back in those days.



Mike (1 SB3, 1 Duet, 1 Boom, 2 Touch, 1 SB Radio)
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[audiomuze]

I definitely don't miss physical media and much prefer my listening room
without a cd lined wall. I find the biggest problem is just how large
my collection has become over the years, so much so that I've forgotten
what lies at the core of my musical tastes.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[audiomuze]

mlsstl wrote:
> I've looked at Roon and am not sure I'm interested. Its two strong
> points seem to be an attractive graphic interface and the ability to
> bring its own, additional metadata (tags) to the party.
>
> The first item is kind of a "meh" for me -- I play my stereo in order to
> listen to music and the LMS/Squeezebox system works great for this. The
> latter seems interesting, since it appears it'd add more info to what
> I've collected in my own system, but then I'm currently not having too
> hard a time finding the music I want to listen to.
>
> So that's where I stand right now -- some interesting possibilities but
> it hardly seems worth a $120 annual subscription or $500 fee up front.
>
> Have I missed something?I was a Squeezebox/LMS user from early 2000's through to earlier this
year. It is a great music streaming solution, and still the only thing
I'd recommend to anyone if they weren't going to use Roon.
Fundamentally what Roon provides me with from a user experience
perspective is deeper and richer ways to explore my music collection,
something that just isn't possible with LMS. Some examples: I like to
read artist biographies and album reviews. Other artists, albums,
composers etc. named therein can be clicked through from within the
biographies or reviews. Let's say I like Simon Phillips' work as a
drummer and would like to find every album in my library where he makes
an appearance...simply go to an album he appears in or search for him as
an artist and click through...you'll be presented a complete list of
albums in your library he's appeared on, many of which may be complete
surprises to you unless you're a walking encyclopedia of music. If it's
something I'm going to want to come back to often I can bookmark that
and any other filtered result I care to see without having to redefine/
re-specify the criteria. If I want to see all albums released by a
specific record label within a selected genre(s) that's pretty simple
too. I can browse all Soundtracks, EPs, Singles or any combination of
genres, years, decades etc. at the touch of a button. When I'm browsing
an artist I can see their main albums, Singles and EPs and appearances
logically arranged. I also have at my fingertips a list of artists that
are Similar To, Followed By, Influenced By and Associated With that
artist. Whilst this kind of exploration may not appeal to everyone, I
find it incredibly useful, it's something I've always wanted to be an
integral part of my listening experience and unfortunately it's
something LMS simply cannot provide.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[audiomuze]

mlsstl wrote:
> I've looked at Roon and am not sure I'm interested. Its two strong
> points seem to be an attractive graphic interface and the ability to
> bring its own, additional metadata (tags) to the party.
>
> The first item is kind of a "meh" for me -- I play my stereo in order to
> listen to music and the LMS/Squeezebox system works great for this. The
> latter seems interesting, since it appears it'd add more info to what
> I've collected in my own system, but then I'm currently not having too
> hard a time finding the music I want to listen to.
>
> So that's where I stand right now -- some interesting possibilities but
> it hardly seems worth a $120 annual subscription or $500 fee up front.
>
> Have I missed something?I was a Squeezebox/LMS user from early 2000's through to earlier this
year. It is a great music streaming solution, and still the only thing
I'd recommend to anyone if they weren't going to use Roon.
Fundamentally what Roon provides me with from a user experience
perspective is deeper and richer ways to explore my music collection,
something that just isn't possible with LMS. Some examples: I like to
read artist biographies and album reviews. Other artists, albums,
composers etc. named therein can be clicked through from within the
biographies or reviews. Let's say I like Simon Phillips' work as a
drummer and would like to find every album in my library where he makes
an appearance...simply go to an album he appears in or search for him as
an artist and click through...you'll be presented a complete list of
albums in your library he's appeared on, many of which may be complete
surprises to you unless you're a walking encyclopedia of music. If it's
something I'm going to want to come back to often I can bookmark that
and any other filtered result I care to see without having to redefine/
re-specify the criteria. If I want to see all albums released by a
specific record label within a selected genre(s) that's pretty simple
too. I can browse all Soundtracks, EPs, Singles or any combination of
genres, years, decades, audio formats etc. at the touch of a button.
When I'm browsing an artist I can see their main albums, Singles and EPs
and appearances logically arranged. I also have at my fingertips a list
of artists that are Similar To, Followed By, Influenced By and
Associated With that artist. Whilst this kind of exploration may not
appeal to everyone, I find it incredibly useful, it's something I've
always wanted to be an integral part of my listening experience and
unfortunately it's something LMS simply cannot provide.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

audiomuze wrote:
> 'RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport)' (https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT)

Ouch, so yet another proprietary solution. Too bad.

Fortunately at least the pro world seems to be going AES67 architecture
so that we are not dependent on single-vendor proprietary protocols.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mnyb]

Julf wrote:
> Ouch, so yet another proprietary solution. Too bad.
>
> Fortunately at least the pro world seems to be going AES67 architecture
> so that we are not dependent on single-vendor proprietary protocols.

Interesting is it any good ? This AES67 ?
I do understand one reason everyone lean towards proprietary protocols ,
to previous "standard" was UPNP/DLNA :P

We have slimproto and some other cometd based protocol in our beloved
LMS .

If AES67 have architectural shortcomings or is a design by comitee thing
like upnp then we are yet again doomed to multiple proprietary protocols
or upnp combined with player specific workarounds .

The meaningful thing for roon to do would be to make RAAT open source .

Now they have some certification program btw and try to uphold some QC
over how endpoints behave which is both good and bad , two different
ways of doing stuff .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[audiomuze]

Mnyb wrote:
> The meaningful thing for roon to do would be to make RAAT open source .
>
> Now they have some certification program btw and try to uphold some QC
> over how endpoints behave which is both good and bad , two different
> ways of doing stuff .AFAIK the SDK is free to hardware manufacturers.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

Mnyb wrote:
> Interesting is it any good? This AES67?

It is pretty good for what it was designed for, audio-over-IP
interoperability - "The aim was emphatically not to provide the
structure for a new, comprehensive media distribution system". Developed
by a committee, but pretty much following the IETF "running code and
rough consensus" principles.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[audiomuze]

Mnyb wrote:
> Btw can some expand on have the sofware works headless/remotely ie the
> interface is not on the machine running it ?
>
> Web UI other UI and ofcourse apps . And is there any setup chore that
> must be done from a desktop UI ?Roon functionality comes in Desktop, headless server and tablet app
form. All config and setup can be done from desktop or tablet apps.
One instance is set up as the core whilst the remainder then function as
control points. Unfortunately there's presently no web ui and it's
unlikely there'll be a desktop app for Linux.



SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Audiotic]

audiomuze wrote:
> Bought a lifetime Roon license and haven't looked back. Currently using
> Squeezelite running on Wandboard Quads as transports. Once Roon Bridge
> is released I doubt I'd continue using Squeezelite. Roon aside, LMS
> remains the best and most versatile music server I've ever encountered.
> Long live LMS and Squeezelite.
>
> I still have a few factory sealed SBT's ... anyone interested in buying
> them?

Did the same. Running SqueezeBox via LMS in parallel mainly for radio in
e.g the kitchen. But for serious stuff: Roon via Auralic Aries.
Impressive software, worth it high pricetag. Rediscovering my
collection!



Marantz NA-11S1 PCM/DSD streamer with Squeezebox Touch front-end -
Marantz UD9004 / AV8801 / MM8003 & CI Audio D-200 MkII (front only) -
Nubert NuVero & R.E.L. R-528SE - Siltech & ProLine custom made Silver &
Gold, XLR where possible
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