[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] KEF X300A's and the Squeezebox Radio's output - A good fit?

[Scott Crawford]

Hi All, I am looking to take my home system up a notch and I am seeking
opinions. My system currently runs very smooth and consists of:

An older Dell PowerEdge Server running Windows 8.1 Pro, a 2.53 GHz
Celeron, and 2.00 GB of ram.
A Netgear R7000 with the 2.4 GHz band dedicated to the home system.
14 Squeezebox Radios
(4) of them connected to 4 Sunfire DS-8 Self Powered Subwoofers
(9) standalones (4 of them setup as 2 stereo pairs)
(1) powering a pair of Audioengine5's
A Nexus 7 2013 on a dock running "Squeeze Control"
36,989 tracks, 2760 Albums Currently 40 to 75 VBR WMA (Soon to change to
a Flac Library)

My question is this.
I am looking to place 3 sets of powered speakers in three places around
the house. These would be ideally located for the layout of the home and
I think it would be a nice improvement.
The self powered speakers I am looking a purchasing are the KEF X300A's.
I would plug them directly into the 1/8 inch output jacks of 3 of the
radio's. This configuration change would even allow me to tuck 1 radio
away as a spare.

Am I on target thinking the output of the Squeezebox Radio's would
justify the expense of the KEF X300A's or would there be no discernible
difference if I just went with 2 more sets of Audioengine5's?
I am going to convert my WMA Lossless library to Flac and start using it
soon so that part of the signal would be top notch.

"Again, is the signal coming from Squeezebox Radios good enough to
justify the KEF X300A's?"

I know as an option I could just go with traditional stereos and
Squeezebox Touch's but I like being able to turn the whole system on and
off from any location in the house.

Thanks to everyone for their invaluable opinions.

Scott


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[Mnyb]

Even if Radio is not as good source component as the Touch .
The biggest difference will still be the speakers . If you can hear the
difference between the speakers , you can hear it with a Radio too . In
general the difference between speakers are much bigger than between
digital players .

Touch migth be a real improvement its a very decent source component , I
never used the Radio as a source for line level so I would not know how
much better Touch is and if it's posible to hear. But given that Touch
is made for line level use and Radio has it as an extra function . My
bet is on the Touch as a line level component .

Btw I use 2 Touch and a Boom and a Radio for my small home .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[probedb]

Is there any reason you want the KEFs? You'd be better getting a set of
actives that don't have the USB DAC functionality if you're not going to
use it?

I was looking at them but I want to plug them into a PC :)



'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb)
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[Man in a van]

Hi Scott,

Just read the KEF speaker blurb and it seems there are two input
options, 3.5mm analogue (that's the radio taken care of), USB-limited to
24/96.

So, assuming you like the sound of the Speakers (is it possible to try a
pair at home first?) you should be good to go with the Radio/s.

Another option would be a raspberry pi (piCorePlayer OS) with either; a
DAC board of choice or, a USB output to connect to the speakers.

With the latter there is the question of whether the USB chip used by
the speaker is compatible with the pi kernel.

I have used a pi/piCorePlayer/iQaudio DAC direct into Mackie Active
speakers with excellent results, plenty of apps and things to control
selection and volume.

As stated before the speakers will make the most difference and I think
that care taken in their selection will may the most dividend.

I wish you success with your choice

atb

Ronnie


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[pablolie]

looking at my Radio i don't seem tpo see any "outs" for anything.... am
i missing something? the radio is a fun thing, my mom (75) uses it and
drives it from her ipad. but unlike the Boom there doesn't seem to be a
way to drive anything external unless i am missing something big...?



...pablo
Server: Virtual Machine running Ubuntu 12.04 + LMS 7.7.3 on VMware
Player
System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval
Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem
Element Fire
Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> MusicalFidelity
M1PWR -> Totem DreamCatcher
Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e
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[Man in a van]

pablolie wrote:
> looking at my Radio i don't seem tpo see any "outs" for anything other
> than headphones, and i am not sure how great that is.... am i missing
> something? the radio is a fun thing, my mom (75) uses it and drives it
> from her ipad. but unlike the Boom there doesn't seem to be a way to
> drive anything external seriously unless i am missing something big...?





Not big......on the back, by the Ethernet socket


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[Mnyb]

You dont have to limit yourself to actives with 3,5mm sockets , there
are cables with 3,5 mm to RCA .

It works both ways if you have speakers with 3,5mm sockets a player wth
rca out can be used with such a cable



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Scott Crawford]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the great comments. I really appreciate the input. I think I
will probably go ahead with the speaker purchases because I didn't hear
anything that was a showstopper. I know the 1/8 inch jack on the
Squeezebox Radio isn't delivering the same pure signal as a preamp out
but I think with a little adjustment it will probably sound fine. I am
already running four subwoofers and a set of Audioengine5's in the same
manor and they sound ...good. I guess at the end of the day I am really
sacrificing a certain amount of fidelity for the ability to turn
everything off and on with a single click (and have it all go into a low
power mode, and in the speakers case - based on incoming signal). Both
the SDS8's and KEF's are able to do that. Unfortunately I have never
heard the KEF's in person and they are not handled by anyone locally. I
am only going on what I have read. If anyone has a particular self
powered speaker they absolutely love I would welcome any suggestions. I
am not locked in to the KEF's but they apparently sound amazing. I am
aware that I wouldn't even be using the DAC portion of the speakers
which is admittedly lame but the speaker drivers themselves are also
purportedly something special. One last thing, I am already running
higher end cables that convert from 1/8 inch to RCA jacks and they work
great.

Thanks again for the valuable dialog.

Scott


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[Man in a van]

I use the Mackie 824

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep07/articles/mackie_hr824mk2.htm

I bought them on the strength of this review.

Can you not visit a Pro audio Shop? (are you in the UK?)

atb

Ronnie


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[probedb]

Scott Crawford wrote:
> I am only going on what I have read.

You really should hear them even if only instore. The problem is that
people can write a lot of rubbish on the net and in mags, only you know
whether you'll like them :) That said if you're in the UK you can return
them within 14 days I believe no matter what the dealer says, distance
selling regs I believe.



'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb)
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[pablolie]

moreover the KEF X300A seem to have a good built-in DAC, so why pay for
something you are not using? it seems to be a patch between components
you accidentally own, rather than a system you purposedly design.



...pablo
Server: Virtual Machine running Ubuntu 12.04 + LMS 7.7.3 on VMware
Player
System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval
Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem
Element Fire
Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> MusicalFidelity
M1PWR -> Totem DreamCatcher
Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e
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[Mnyb]

You may treat yourself to a used squeezebox Touch or some of the DIY
players later on if want a digital out .

More on actives , I use a pair of Adam a3x for my computer that's also a
good speaker .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[garym]

Mnyb wrote:
> You may treat yourself to a used squeezebox Touch or some of the DIY
> players later on if want a digital out .
>
> More on actives , I use a pair of Adam a3x for my computer that's also a
> good speaker .

I use a pair of Adam A5X speakers at my weekend cottage and they are
quite good, and a major step up from the audioengine A5s they replaced.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[snoogly]

And there are still a few pairs of rosewood AVI DM5 left (might be more
made in the future, might not ...).

http://www.avihifi.com/shop.html

On the cheaper active side, I can recommend the Yamaha HS5.


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[Scott Crawford]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for great suggestions. I really appreciate them. I have
been doing as much listening as I can here in Spokane, WA but really I'm
limited to a "Huppins HiFi" store, which also runs OneCall.com and a
"Guitar Center" store. Huppins is the only audiophile store in town but
their selection of powered speakers is sadly lacking. Guitar Center has
a larger selection but their speakers tend toward "monitor" style and
are not Audiophile quality. One I was looking at there was the JBL
SR305, a very inexpensive speaker that none the less sounds OK. I think
my best move will be to head to Seattle and hit a number of true music
stores to try out some of the speakers you have recommended.

Also, I am thoroughly enjoying the various threads that have been
starting up lately, good stuff.

Thanks again and I will keep everyone posted.


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[Man in a van]

Scott Crawford wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks so much for GREAT suggestions. I really appreciate them. I have
> been doing as much listening as I can here in Spokane, WA but really I'm
> limited to a "Huppins HiFi" store, which also runs OneCall.com and a
> "Guitar Center" store. Huppins is the only audiophile store in town but
> their selection of powered speakers is sadly lacking. Guitar Center has
> a larger selection but their speakers tend toward "monitor" style and I
> think that is different from Audiophile quality? One I was looking at
> there was the JBL SR305, a very inexpensive speaker that none the less
> sounds pretty decent. I think my best move will be to head to Seattle
> and hit a number of true music stores to try out some of the speakers
> you have recommended. I am going to check out those Yamaha HS5's here in
> Spokane since I think they might have them at Guitar Center.
>
> Also, I am thoroughly enjoying the various threads that have been
> starting up lately, good stuff.
>
> Thanks again and I will keep everyone posted.


Good to know your having fun Scott.

And there was me thinking for all these years that Spokane was somewhere
in the Twilight Zone :p

atb

Ronnie


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[Scott Crawford]

Hi All,

Just a quick update to let you know how my home audio system is
progressing. I just added a more robust set of speakers (3 pairs
actually) to my home system. After much thought, investigation, and a
bit of cost compromise, I chose to go with 3 pairs of JBL LSR305 Powered
Studio Monitors sitting on Maple DR Pro Studio Monitor Stands for the
three main areas of the house. I am very pleased with the way they
sound and for the price I think they turned out great. I am getting
closer to that traditional stereo sound while maintaining the capability
and flexibility of an LMS system .

I'm liking it.

So as it stands now, this is my home music system.

An older Dell PowerEdge Server running Windows 8.1 Pro, a 2.53 GHz
Celeron, and 2.00 GB of ram.
A Netgear R7000 with the 2.4 GHz band dedicated to the home system.
14 Squeezebox Radios
(7) standalones (2 of them setup as stereo pairs)
(4) of them connected to 4 Sunfire DS-8 Self Powered Subwoofers
(3) of them connected to 3 pairs of JBL LSR305 Powered Studio Monitors
sitting on Maple DR Pro Studio Monitor Stands.
A Nexus 7 2013 on a dock running "Squeeze Ctrl"
40,000 tracks, 3000 Albums Currently 40 to 75 VBR WMA.

Next up - and I'm not sure in what order:

An additional 9 or 10 inch Android tablet running "Squeeze Ctrl".
A newer, more powerful music server.
Converting my WMA Lossless library to FLAC for use with the LMS
library.

Well that's it for now. Thanks again to everyone for their GREAT
suggestions (They really helped me work through my choices).

Scott


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[Apesbrain]

Scott Crawford wrote:
> Next up - and I'm not sure in what order:
>
> Converting my WMA Lossless library to FLAC for use with the LMS library.
Can't hurt but not sure this is necessary. I'm running LMS 7.9 and it
allows my Radios to play WMA Lossless. (Squeezelite, however, does not
seem to like the format.)


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[Scott Crawford]

Apesbrain wrote:
> Can't hurt but not sure this is necessary. I'm running LMS 7.9 and it
> allows my Radios to play WMA Lossless. (Squeezelite, however, does not
> seem to like the format.)

Hi Apesbrain,

Thanks for the information. If I could just use my WMA Lossless files
that would be easier. Is there any conversion that occurs on the fly
that might put a load on things?

Scott


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[Apesbrain]

Scott Crawford wrote:
> Is there any conversion that occurs on the fly that might put a load on
> things?
Not sure. "Settings" > "Advanced" > "File Types" indicates WMA Lossless
is "Native". Copy an album or two to your library and try it out.


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[Scott Crawford]

Apesbrain wrote:
> Not sure. "Settings" > "Advanced" > "File Types" indicates WMA Lossless
> is "Native". Copy an album or two to your library and try it out.

Will Do. :-)


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[RonM]

When I first ripped my CDs to lossless after getting my original Duet, I
did it to WMA. Later I moved to ripping to FLAC, and now about 3/4 of
the files are in the latter format (along with a few lossy MP3s). The
system plays seamlessly across the various formats, and I never have
cause to think about it -- Controller, Touch, Radio, Boom.

R.



LMS on a dedicated music server (FitPC3)
Transporter (ethernet) - main music listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm
speakers
Duet (wifi) - home theatre 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (wifi) - workspace
Boom 2 (wifi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (wifi) - home office
Touch x 2 - awaiting deployment
UE Radio - awaiting deployment
Control - 2 Controllers (main listening, home theatre, all others),
Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2), Music2Touch (BB Playbook)
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[Scott Crawford]

RonM wrote:
> When I first ripped my CDs to lossless after getting my original Duet, I
> did it to WMA. Later I moved to ripping to FLAC, and now about 3/4 of
> the files are in the latter format (along with a few lossy MP3s). The
> system plays seamlessly across the various formats, and I never have
> cause to think about it -- Controller, Touch, Radio, Boom.
>
> R.

Great to know! - Thanks so much.


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[Scott Crawford]

Hi All,

Well, I took the plunge (helped by the great feedback from this forum).


I Replaced my 10+ year old server with a new (dedicated to LMS only)
Dell Inspiron 3000 Series Model 3847 running a 4th Gen Intel i7-4790
Processor, with 16 GB of Ram, and 2 10,000 RPM 4 Terabyte Hard drives (1
as a backup).
The other improvement I made is that I changed music databases. I went
from my 40 to 75 VBR WMA database to a Lossless WMA database that I
built at the same time (For literally 8 to 10 years).
I am pretty excited. It seems like I have been looking forward to
rolling out this database forever and I am now able to do it because of
the addition of some reasonably good hardware.

I do have a few questions regarding some of the settings in LMS.
Obviously switching to a lossless format puts a bit of a load on the
system and there are some network settings I would like to dial in.
They are found in: Web Control, Player, Synchronize:
The four I am curious about are "Player Start Delay (ms)", "Player Audio
Delay (ms)", "Minimum Synchronization Adjustment (ms)" and Network
Packet Latency (ms)".

I'm curious if anyone has experimented with these settings as a way to
optimize network settings for large files such as the Lossless WMA.
I have had a tiny bit of a buffering issue sometimes when playing the
very first song on the local database.
It hasn't been a huge issue but I am curious what the best combination
of settings is. Right now mine are set at 8,8,10 and 2.
I am also curious if I should stay with the 7.8 branch or should I
change to the 7.9 branch. I haven't really ever been able to decide.
If I am missing any other settings please let me know.

I apologize if this should be in the "Logitech Media Server Forum". I
wasn't quite sure where it fit best and I had some good history on this
thread.

Thanks everyone!


With the upgrades, this is my home music system (I'm done for now).

A Dell Inspiron 3000 Series Model 3847 running Windows 8.1 Pro, a 4th
Gen 4th Intel i7-4790 Processor, 16 GB of ram, and 2 4 Terabytes hard
drives (1 is a backup)
A Netgear R7000 with the 2.4 GHz band dedicated to the home system.
14 Squeezebox Radios
(7) standalones (2 of them setup as stereo pairs)
(4) of them connected to 4 Sunfire DS-8 Self Powered Subwoofers
(3) of them connected to 3 pairs of JBL LSR305 Powered Studio Monitors
sitting on Maple DR Pro Studio Monitor Stands
In the Living Room - A 10.5 Inch Samsung Nexus Galaxy TAB-S running
"Squeeze Ctrl"

In the Bedroom - A Nexus 7 2013 on a dock running "Squeeze Ctrl"
40,000 tracks, 3000 Albums in Lossless WMA.


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[Julf]

Scott Crawford wrote:
> I'm curious if anyone has experimented with these settings as a way to
> optimize network settings for large files such as the Lossless WMA.
> I have had a tiny bit of a buffering issue sometimes when playing the
> very first song on the local database.

The basic tradeoff is more or less buffering. The network load will
stay pretty much the same (the packet overhead is not significant - it
is the amount of data that needs to be transferred that is the
determining factor), but what you can do is trade track/album startup
delay for protection against mid-track dropouts. If you aren't getting
dropouts mid-track, increasing buffering/delay isn't really buying you
anything.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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