[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Logitech Transporter replacement

[DavidNL]

Hi,

my Logitech Transporter died and i'm looking for a replacement. I need
something that supports Squeezebox/Logitech Media Server (in my opinion
it's simply the best there is for handling a large audio collection, in
combination with iPeng).

So far i've found this: SOtM sMS-100 and SOtM sHP-100 as DAC (
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-100/ )


Are there any other audio network players that still support
Squeezebox/LMS ?


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[garym]

DavidNL wrote:
> Hi,
>
> my Logitech Transporter died and i'm looking for a replacement. I need
> something that supports Squeezebox/Logitech Media Server (in my opinion
> it's simply the best there is for handling a large audio collection, in
> combination with iPeng).
>
> So far i've found this: SOtM sMS-100 and SOtM sHP-100 as DAC (
> http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-100/ )
>
>
> Are there any other audio network players that still support
> Squeezebox/LMS ?

The above is just a computer running squeezelite basically. So any
computer running squeezelite will work as your player. And this could be
a small, headless computer. On the other hand, why not simply pick up
a used (or new in box) Squeezebox Touch from ebay, etc. and connect it
to the DAC of your choice. When my transporter bites the dust, I'll
replace it with one of my extra TOUCH units and my only purchase will be
deciding what sort of new DAC I want to buy and connect the TOUCH to.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[riffer]

That doesn't replace the Transporter, as there is no DAC.

If you have to buy a DAC, there are all kinds of options. You can ever
build a Vortexbox out of old computer components.

The main problem is a lack of a screen; but a tablet of some sort can
solve that.


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[cliveb]

riffer wrote:
> The main problem is a lack of a screen; but a tablet of some sort can
> solve that.
OP says he uses iPeng, so my guess is that lack of a screen won't be a
problem.

Obvious low cost solution is a RaspPi running piCorePlayer plus
HiFiBerry Digi+ (cost for both is under $100) feeding whatever external
DAC they like. ($450 for the SMS-100 is robbery).



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
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[Greg Erskine]

DavidNL wrote:
> Hi,
>
> my Logitech Transporter died and i'm looking for a replacement. I need
> something that supports Squeezebox/Logitech Media Server (in my opinion
> it's simply the best there is for handling a large audio collection, in
> combination with iPeng).
>
> So far i've found this: SOtM sMS-100 and SOtM sHP-100 as DAC (
> http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-100/ )
>
>
> Are there any other audio network players that still support
> Squeezebox/LMS ?

Hi DavidNL,

It could be just the PSU. There is a thread about replacing the
Transporter CPU.

Anyway, please don't trash it, someone would like it for parts.

regards
Greg


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[DavidNL]

Thanks all for your replies;

> When my transporter bites the dust, I'll replace it with one of my extra
> TOUCH units and my only purchase will be deciding what sort of new DAC I
> want to buy and connect the TOUCH to.

okay good point. I will probably end up doing that. Was also wondering
if there was a proper "new" replacement from another manufacturer so i
don't have to buy a used Touch with no warranty, etc.

> Obvious low cost solution is a RaspPi running piCorePlayer plus
> HiFiBerry Digi+ (cost for both is under $100) feeding whatever external
> DAC they like. ($450 for the SMS-100 is robbery).
That looks interesting also.. i will look if i can find someone who
sells the "finished product", including a nice case and stuff.
I've been browsing around and found 'this awesome thing'
(http://www.crazy-audio.com/2014/11/a-squeezebox-replacement-based-on-the-hifiberry-dac-and-the-raspberry-pi/)
would be nice if someone would actually sell them.

> It could be just the PSU. There is a thread about replacing the
> Transporter CPU.
>
> Anyway, please don't trash it, someone would like it for parts.

i'm not really the do-it-yourself-hardware-type of guy... but i
definitely won't trash it :-)


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[garym]

DavidNL wrote:
>
> okay good point. I will probably end up doing that. Was also wondering
> if there was a proper "new" replacement from another manufacturer so i
> don't have to buy a used Touch with no warranty, etc.
>

no one else is making a commercial "replacement" of a TOUCH or
TRANSPORTER (I'm not counting the DIY "squeezelite" examples you've
already been given). But there should be little or no danger in buying
a Touch from an individual seller. Most sellers on ebay, etc. will at
least guarantee that it works initially. And if it works initially, it
will probably work for many, many years. I've had many Squeezebox
products over the last 7 years, all in constant use and the only thing
that ever broke was a new TOUCH that had a broken screen problem right
out of the box. All the other units are still working as good as new.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[krochat]

garym wrote:
> if it works initially, it will probably work for many, many years. I've
> had many Squeezebox products over the last 7 years, all in constant use
> and the only thing that ever broke was a new TOUCH that had a broken
> screen problem right out of the box. All the other units are still
> working as good as new.

A caveat about getting a used Transporter - the blue VFD displays tend
to fade over time. My 10 year old SB3 is looking pretty dim at this
point.



------
Touch -> GW Labs upsampler -> TacT RCS 2.2X -> Convolver PC (Win7 +
AcourateConvolver + RME HDSP-AES-32)-> Apogee Big Ben -> (TacT S2150 ->
KEF LS50) + (TacT S2150 -> TacT W210)
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[Apesbrain]

garym wrote:
> no one else is making a commercial "replacement" of a TOUCH or
> TRANSPORTER
Just want to mention that there's this:
http://www.vidabox.com/opensqueeze-solo-music-player.html

You'd probably want to add a USB DAC and it's expensive compared to the
DIY Raspberry Pi solution. I just bought all the parts to snap together
an RPi with coax/optical digital out and it came to about $105.


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[DJanGo]

garym wrote:
> no one else is making a commercial "replacement" of a TOUCH or
> TRANSPORTER

'No one?'
(http://shop.max2play.com/en/raspberry-pi-2-bundle-7-display.html) ok
its just a assembly kit.



Gruss

Jan
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[riffer]

And don't forget the player for people who don't have anything else to
spend $6500US on:

http://antipodesaudio.com/antipodes_music_servers.html

To be honest, if I had lots and lots and lots of free cash I would
probably buy one.


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[garym]

riffer wrote:
> And don't forget the player for people who don't have anything else to
> spend $6500US on:
>
> http://antipodesaudio.com/antipodes_music_servers.html
>
> To be honest, if I had lots and lots and lots of free cash I would
> probably buy one.

Looks like it doesn't even have built in DAC. So you'd pay $6500 for
essentially the same thing you get with a $50 garage sale PC with free
Vortexbox installed? Both would produce bitperfect output to a USB DAC
into your stereo.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[Julf]

garym wrote:
> Looks like it doesn't even have built in DAC. So you'd pay $6500 for
> essentially the same thing you get with a $50 garage sale PC with free
> Vortexbox installed? Both would produce bitperfect output to a USB DAC
> into your stereo.

But everybody knows it sounds better when coming from an
expensive-looking aluminium alloy case...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[garym]

Julf wrote:
> But everybody knows it sounds better when coming from an
> expensive-looking aluminium alloy case...

of course (but to be fair, I personally wouldn't use any old PC if it
was also serving as my music player and sitting in my music listening
location. I wouldn't want the fan noise! So I'd have to upgrade to a
fanless PC so I might have to spend $100. :p



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[wortgefecht]

Honestly, I would shell out €300+ for a Pi or Odroid/DAC/PSU/display
device running Max2Play and sitting in a nice case with all connections
on a rear panel ... :cool:



New setup:

- ASRock Ion 330, Lubuntu 14.04, LMS 7.9, FLAC
- *Duet* > AKG Hearo 888 Titan (home office), *Boom + Canton ASF 75
SC* (master bedroom), *Boom* (master bathroom), *Radio* (guest
bathroom), *RPi + KODI 15 + XSqueeze* > Samsung UE60H6270 > Denon
AVR-770SD > Mission 2.1 speakers (living room)
- *Classic* > Parasound DAC 1500 > vintage Wega Modul 42V amp (42E
equalizer, 42T tape deck + Thorens TD 160 Mk II turntable) > Quadral
Vulkan Mk II (music room)
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[rrgmrg]

I picked up a black NIB Transporter with knob on Ebay. The guy has 20
for sale and takes offers. I got him down to $600 shipped.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151858152128&globalID=EBAY-US


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[Jeff07971]

Julf wrote:
> But everybody knows it sounds better when coming from an
> expensive-looking aluminium alloy case...

And you just HAVE to use their audio cables to get the most out of it !



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
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[TimT]

DavidNL wrote:
> Thanks all for your replies;
>
> That looks interesting also.. i will look if i can find someone who
> sells the "finished product", including a nice case and stuff.
> I've been browsing around and found 'this awesome thing'
> (http://www.crazy-audio.com/2014/11/a-squeezebox-replacement-based-on-the-hifiberry-dac-and-the-raspberry-pi/)
> would be nice if someone would actually sell them.
>
> i'm not really the do-it-yourself-hardware-type of guy... but i
> definitely won't trash it :-)

DavidNL,

I just placed an order for a Rasp Pi 2 & Hifiberry DAC+ and the needed
parts (case, SD card, PSU). Some say that this is a simple DIY project.
Watch this space; I will let you know if it is.


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[netchord]

a bit off topic, but does anyone know if the transporter's digital
OUTput is limited to 24/96? if one *could* theoretically send a 24/192
signal to the TP, would it pass it along intact via it's coax/bnc output
w/o downsampling?



--
4 TB Drobo-->FW 800-->mac mini-->Ethernet
Transporter--> Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax-->Meridian G61
G61--> Nordost Red Dawn-->Primare 30.3
Primare-->Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro
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[toby10]

netchord wrote:
> a bit off topic, but does anyone know if the transporter's digital
> OUTput is limited to 24/96? if one *could* theoretically send a 24/192
> signal to the TP, would it pass it along intact via it's coax/bnc output
> w/o downsampling?

Yes, hardware limited including digital outs. That's why many prefer
the Touch+EDO for external DAC's (at a fraction of the price). :)
Or just Touch alone as downsampling to Touch native resolution makes no
audible difference.


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[garym]

toby10 wrote:
> Yes, hardware limited including digital outs. That's why many prefer
> the Touch+EDO for external DAC's (at a fraction of the price). :)
> Or just Touch alone as downsampling to Touch native resolution makes no
> audible difference.

As toby10 notes, YES, it is limited to 24/96 without the possibility of
a change (such as using EDO).



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[netchord]

garym wrote:
> As toby10 notes, YES, it is limited to 24/96 without the possibility of
> a change (such as using EDO).

thanks, and i appreciate the lack of ad hominem statement wrt sq.



--
4 TB Drobo-->FW 800-->mac mini-->Ethernet
Transporter--> Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax-->Meridian G61
G61--> Nordost Red Dawn-->Primare 30.3
Primare-->Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro
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[Mnyb]

toby10 wrote:
> Yes, hardware limited including digital outs. That's why many prefer
> the Touch+EDO for external DAC's (at a fraction of the price). :)
> Or just Touch alone as downsampling to Touch native resolution makes no
> audible difference.

Touch without EDO is 24/96 same as transporter and if used as a digital
transport the same thing .

garym wrote:
> As toby10 notes, YES, it is limited to 24/96 without the possibility of
> a change (such as using EDO).

Which is not really a limitation .

However the PI2 and other mini computers seems to offer a great variety
of flexibility and functioning USB2 support etc . Connect whatever DAC
you fancy .

The strength of the TP is its very good built in DAC combined with async
networking and variable attenuation on the outputs and balanced output
for those who needs it , it's the whole thing .

As a pure transport for digital out it's a waste of money . That said I
would like one anyhow for its historical values its really cool :)

If I started all over today some kind of plug on board to a PI with
digital out would suit me fine .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[cliveb]

Mnyb wrote:
> The strength of the TP is its very good built in DAC combined with async
> networking and variable attenuation on the outputs and balanced output
> for those who needs it , it's the whole thing .
Agreed. The TP is effectively a digital preamp with balanced outputs and
a built in squeezebox. That's why I bought mine. But it is a bit
anachronistic these days. There are now cheaper options, as you note:

Mnyb wrote:
> If I started all over today some kind of plug on board to a PI with
> digital out would suit me fine .
A suitable plug on board for this purpose is the HiFiBerry DIGI+. Feed a
decent balanced DAC from that and you're in business. If/when my TP
dies, that's what I will do.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
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[sckramer]

I recommend skipping the touch and going straight to the
RaspberryPi/Hifiberry Digi+/piCorePlayer

But, you have to use a 5V linear supply-- I stumbled onto this, my plan
was to at least have a replacement for when the touch dies, but this
ended up sounding better than the tweaked sb touch (see my sig for
description -- I could do a tear down video also on that)

Really was not a subtle improvement, more listenable at night & more
there at low volume, very smooth/liquidy.

Almost want to try & set up a good stereo mic to try & catch the
difference, even thru video-- I keep the touch around as reference / a
controller & at my computer desk now

Did a video on the raspi/digi+, plan to do some more on my conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5C5oSs5ELk

Also piCorePlayer is bone simple, no extra services/screen-- streaming
24/96 to RAM, then playing & the CPU is 98.5% idle -- I ssh in and run
"top"
Took TT & all that junk to get the touch cpu anywhere near that



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> Almost want to try & set up a good stereo mic to try & catch the
> difference, even thru video-- I keep the touch around as reference / a
> controller & at my computer desk now
>

If you are prepared to go through that effort, how about also measuring
the difference?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> If you are prepared to go through that effort, how about also measuring
> the difference?

Yeah no, I'll invite you over, your ears can tell :D



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> Yeah no, I'll invite you over, your ears can tell :D don't have that
> kind of measuring equipment.

All you need is a computer with a halfway decent sound card.

> The 5V supply however *does*

A linear supply only makes sense if you can feed the analog stages and
the computer part separately. Linear supplies are notably bad at dealing
with the rapid switching noise from fast digital circuits.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> All you need is a computer with a halfway decent sound card.
>
> Ok
>
> A linear supply only makes sense if you can feed the analog stages and
> the computer part separately. Linear supplies are notably bad at dealing
> with the rapid switching noise from fast digital circuits.

There are no analog stages



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> There are no analog stages

Ah, should have re-read the thread. Was assuming that there had to be at
least a DAC involved, otherwise a linear +5V supply makes no sense.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> Ah, should have re-read the thread. Was assuming that there had to be at
> least a DAC involved, otherwise a linear +5V supply makes no sense.

Well, the spdif square wave, is an analog signal



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> Well, the spdif square wave, is an analog signal

Have you measured the difference in jitter or noise?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> Have you measured the difference in jitter or noise?

The fact that it sound better, compels be to like to be able to.

-- very convinced you have to get this initial critical stage right...
else you tune the rest of the system to cover up the problems.

I'm researching how good an oscilloscope I should get... (of course I'm
getting the scope for many things besides this :D)

Cause I really want to know also.



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> The fact that it sounds better (and not in a "I just bought some audio
> jewelry, it must sound better :D) --> compels be to like to be able to.
>

Would love to see your double-blind ABX logs... :)

> I'm researching how good an oscilloscope I should get... (of course I'm
> getting the scope for many things besides this :D)
>
> Cause I really want to know also.

Oscilloscopes are good for fairly high frequency work, but their
linearity, resolution and signal-to-noise ratio are not very good. For
audio work, you are much better off with a good sound card and software.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> Would love to see your double-blind ABX logs... :)
>
>
>
> Oscilloscopes are good for fairly high frequency work, but their
> linearity, resolution and signal-to-noise ratio are not very good. For
> audio work, you are much better off with a good sound card and software.

Yeah, was beginning to think, this guy knows this is impossible--

I wouldn't bring this up if it didn't significanly sound better, have
you ever played with this stuff, the spdif only?


To prove if noise is effecting the digital, you'd need to compare 2
signals & look for bit errors, or differences (and depending on where
the bit error happens in the "16-bit" binary word... can translate to
big audio blip, or nothing at all)

..then on top of that jitter can mess up when the doc should read each
of these 16-bit word... lots to go wrong

Think you'd need pretty expensive gear.



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> To prove if noise is effecting the digital, you'd need to compare 2
> signals & look for bit errors, or differences (and depending on where
> the bit error happens in the "16-bit" binary word... can translate to
> big audio blip, or nothing at all)
>
> ..then on top of that jitter can mess up when the dac should read each
> of these 16-bit words... lots to go wrong
>
> Think you'd need pretty expensive gear.

Not really. Just measure noise and jitter (using the 2-tone
intermodulation test). Again, doable with any decent sound card and some
software. Just look at the measurements 'Archimago'
(http://archimago.blogspot.nl/) has published.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> Not really. Just measure noise and jitter (using the 2-tone
> intermodulation test). Again, doable with any decent sound card and some
> software. Just look at the measurements 'Archimago'
> (http://archimago.blogspot.nl/) has published.

Ok, I'll check it out--

So are you asking me to prove to myself I'm not hearing anything?



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> So are you asking me to prove to myself I'm not hearing anything?

I am asking you to verify 1) that the things you are hearing correspond
to objective differences, and 2) if so, what kind of differences.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> I am asking you to verify 1) that the things you are hearing correspond
> to objective differences, and 2) if so, what kind of differences.

That's cool, plan on doing more videos on some things related to this,
I'll be keeping certain pieces around as reference etc, as I learn more
I'll compare.

What's the soundcard/software you use?



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

sckramer wrote:
> What's the soundcard/software you use?

For general measurements (speakers etc.) I use a cheap Behringer UCA202,
but it is only 16 bit/48 kHz, so somewhat limited. For high-frequency
stuff I use a 'redpitaya' (http://redpitaya.com/), and for high-SNR
stuff I have been using an E-MU 0204 (24/192).

I also have a couple of oscilloscopes (both analog and digital) and an
Agilent spectrum analyzer, but they don't get much use these days.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Julf wrote:
> For general measurements (speakers etc.) I use a cheap Behringer UCA202,
> but it is only 16 bit/48 kHz, so somewhat limited. For high-frequency
> stuff I use a 'redpitaya' (http://redpitaya.com/), and for high-SNR
> stuff I have been using an E-MU 0204 (24/192).
>
> I also have a couple of oscilloscopes (both analog and digital) and an
> Agilent spectrum analyzer, but they don't get much use these days.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Sometime you should try & sabotage a spdif signal... then compare it to
the good spdif (the 2 analog post dac results) to each other, see what
kind of effects it has on audio signal "visually"



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104518

[d6jg]

Julf wrote:
> For general measurements (speakers etc.) I use a cheap Behringer UCA202,
> but it is only 16 bit/48 kHz, so somewhat limited. For high-frequency
> stuff I use a 'redpitaya' (http://redpitaya.com/), and for high-SNR
> stuff I have been using an E-MU 0204 (24/192).
>
> I also have a couple of oscilloscopes (both analog and digital) and an
> Agilent spectrum analyzer, but they don't get much use these days.

I think you will find that the UCA202 is 16/44.1 not 16/48.

Earlier someone thought the HifiBerry Digi+ was separately powered at
5v. I think you will find that it's the HifiBerry Amp that has a 5v
input that replaces the Pi's USB power in.

AFAIK the Pi 2's LAN & USB ports still share the same BUS which is one
of the reasons why USB Dac's possibly don't perform quite as they might.
The HifiBerry DAC+ and Digi+ offer better alternatives in my opinion.
I'd always use the LAN connection in preference to WiFi.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

d6jg wrote:
> I think you will find that the UCA202 is 16/44.1 not 16/48.

The hardware is capable of 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz. Perhaps the drivers for
your OS limit it to 44.1, but I have not had any issues with 48 kHz
under linux.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[ralphy]

Julf wrote:
> The hardware is capable of 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz. Perhaps the drivers for
> your OS limit it to 44.1, but I have not had any issues with 48 kHz
> under linux.

A quick run of alsacap confirms linux supports up to 48KHz.

Code:
--------------------
Card 2, ID `CODEC', name `USB Audio CODEC'
Device 0, ID `USB Audio', name `USB Audio', 1 subdevices (1 available)
1..2 channels, sampling rate 32000..48000 Hz
Sample formats: S8, U8, S16_LE
--------------------



Ralphy

*1*-Touch, *4*-Classics, *2*-Booms, *1*-Reverted UE Radio
'Squeezebox client builds'
(https://www.mediafire.com/folder/4q8dvq20iyz9e/Builds) 'donations'
(https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=LL5P6365KQEXN&lc=CA&item_name=Squeezebox%20client%20builds&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donate_SM%2egif%3aNonHosted)
always appreciated.
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[d6jg]

Julf wrote:
> The hardware is capable of 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz. Perhaps the drivers for
> your OS limit it to 44.1, but I have not had any issues with 48 kHz
> under linux.

I have had a further look and you are correct. Apologies.

The UCA202 is a great value for money device. I use one to "rip" my
vinyl to FLAC.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

d6jg wrote:
> The UCA202 is a great value for money device.

Absolutely! But because it is cheap and has a cheap-looking plastic box,
it isn't "audiophile quality". :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Jeff07971]

Julf wrote:
> Absolutely! But because it is cheap and has a cheap-looking plastic box,
> it isn't "audiophile quality". :)

Well we can change that !
I can put it in a CNC'd case with an OTT analogue psu if you want, I'll
charge $4000, OK :)



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

Jeff07971 wrote:
> Well we can change that !
> I can put it in a CNC'd case with an OTT analogue psu if you want, I'll
> charge $4000, OK :)

Throw in a couple of bamboo fibre capacitors and a bit of silver wire,
and we have a killer! :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[d6jg]

Jeff07971 wrote:
> Well we can change that !
> I can put it in a CNC'd case with an OTT analogue psu if you want, I'll
> charge $4000, OK :)

Unfortunately it doesn't actually need the analogue power supply (OTT or
otherwise) as its powered off the USB. A nice case and some
unnecessarily expensive RCA & Optical cables in the box though and I
think $4,000 would be very reasonable.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[d6jg]

Excellent review of the UCA202 that I have just found

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

d6jg wrote:
> Unfortunately it doesn't actually need the analogue power supply (OTT or
> otherwise) as its powered off the USB.

Ah, but that is just theory. Theory can't explain everything. Have you
actually *listened* to it yourself with an analog power supply? :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[d6jg]

Julf wrote:
> Ah, but that is just theory. Theory can't explain everything. Have you
> actually *listened* to it yourself with an analog power supply? :)

Has it got a power socket? I thought not. Or do you mean coupling with a
powered USB hub with a fancy supply? $4,500 in that case.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

d6jg wrote:
> Has it got a power socket? I thought not. Or do you mean coupling with a
> powered USB hub with a fancy supply? $4,500 in that case.

It doesn't need a power socket. Everybody knows that just having a
linear power supply in the same enclosure improves the sound. ;)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Jeff07971]

d6jg wrote:
> Unfortunately it doesn't actually need the analogue power supply (OTT or
> otherwise) as its powered off the USB. A nice case and some
> unnecessarily expensive RCA & Optical cables in the box though and I
> think $4,000 would be very reasonable.

Oh No No NO !!!

You have to galvanically isolate it and power the device itself from a
linear psu !

Otherwise you won't hear any difference !



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

Jeff07971 wrote:
> Oh No No NO !!!
>
> You have to galvanically isolate it and power the device itself from a
> linear psu !
>
> Otherwise you won't hear any difference !

I guess we better stop - somebody might think we are actually serious...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Jeff07971]

Julf wrote:
> I guess we better stop - somebody might think we are actually serious...

:)



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
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[Mnyb]

d6jg wrote:
> Unfortunately it doesn't actually need the analogue power supply (OTT or
> otherwise) as its powered off the USB. A nice case and some
> unnecessarily expensive RCA & Optical cables in the box though and I
> think $4,000 would be very reasonable.

Wonder if someone ever going to get the bright idea and just stuff a box
with shiny expensive looking components ,but if you follow the board
traces most of it is not even doing anything :) (or powered ) .

But There are things where they scraped of the numbers on the components
or hidden stuff in small pots with glue or resin ? ok in this day
everything is done already ...



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Julf]

d6jg wrote:
> The UCA202 is a great value for money device. I use one to "rip" my
> vinyl to FLAC.

Indeed - 16/48 is perfect for vinyl.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[d6jg]

Julf wrote:
> Indeed - 16/48 is perfect for vinyl.

Have you any experience of the UFO202? A friend has piles of vinyl but
no phono stage on his new amp.
I can't imagine the grounding is very good but ..,



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Julf]

d6jg wrote:
> Have you any experience of the UFO202?

Unfortunately not - still have enough old amps with phono stages.

> I can't imagine the grounding is very good but ..,

The grounding of a turntable should really not be through the phono
stage.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[TimT]

Back to the OP:

Yes, assembling a Raspberry Pi and putting it into service as a
Squeezebox replacement is a 20-minute DIY project, but that assumes that
you already know what parts you need and how to put them together.

Here is what you need:
1. Raspberry Pi 2, Model B
2. Hifiberry DAC+ OR
2. Hifiberry Digi+ (for SPDIF/Optical out to an external DAC)
3. Power supply (micro-USB, output 5v, 2.5A)
4. Case (optional, but you probably do want one)
5. USB Wifi dongle (optional, if you don't use RPi2B's built-in LAN)
6. 1gb microSD card
7. Picoreplayer

I used the Hifiberry DAC+ but there are others.

Attach the Hifiberry to the RPi2B -- see the video on the Hifiberry
website on how to do that. No soldering or sawing is necessary. The
units snap together.

If you bought the plastic case, the website also has a video on how to
put that together.

The RPi2B does not come with an operating system. So you write the
Picoreplayer image (an OS that turns the RPI2B into a Squeezebox player)
to the microSD card. Insert the microSD card into the RPi2B, plug in
your network cable, and apply power to the RPi2B's microUSB port. In
about 20 seconds, you have a working Squeezebox player.

The picoreplayer website has instructions on how to configure the
software, including for the audio output your are using (such as the
Hifiberry).

It is easy, but only after you invest some time and effort into learning
how.


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[cliveb]

sckramer wrote:
> The 5V supply however *does*
Please can you speculate as to the mechanism by which a linear 5V supply
gives an improvement over a SMPS 5V supply?
Bear in mind that the DIGI+ SPDIF output is transformer coupled and
therefore galvanically isolated from the DAC it feeds, so noise
transmission to the DAC via the ground plane isn't likely to be the
cause.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
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[sckramer]

cliveb wrote:
> Please can you speculate as to the mechanism by which a linear 5V supply
> gives an improvement over a SMPS 5V supply?
> Bear in mind that the DIGI+ SPDIF output is transformer coupled and
> therefore galvanically isolated from the DAC it feeds, so noise
> transmission to the DAC via the ground plane isn't likely to be the
> cause.

In this case since it's audible... my theory there's less distortion in
the spdif square wave signal (hence less errors on the other side)

Though this guy did some nice simplified graphics on spdif and where it
can go wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grzoqEb2KMk


Here the 5V supply might more effective than when used on the touch... I
honestly thought it was a little subtle to even care (on the touch), but
couldn't hurt right? (this was 3-4 years ago)

...So I still have that linear supply, so figured try it out
on/repurpose it for the pi/digi+


Now on the pi, if you power it from it's usb port, there's protection
circuitry, a fuse, and a tiny switching supply (in addition to the
typically cheap 5V usb supply)

This setup the pi's switching supply,fuse,protection is all bypassed
(you can power the pi from it's GPIO pins) -- in addition to the digi+
not pulling power from the pi--



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Are you guys familiar with the pi, powering it from the GPIO etc? -- I
might start a thread in DIY or Linux for this... forgot I was in the
crazy audiophile section :D i'm not that wacky I swear :D



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

BTW, this is not a knock-off chinese stamped out cookie-cutter board
(HifiBerry), it was carefully designed-- Also the guy (Daniel) has nice
blog post documenting some of it development...

In addition HifiBerry facilitated the linux i2s drivers, for this spdif
chip, and a few BurrBrown dac chips

Here some of it:

http://www.crazy-audio.com/2013/12/optical-spdif-transmission-and-jitter/
http://www.crazy-audio.com/2013/12/spdif-output-transformers/
http://www.crazy-audio.com/2013/10/tracking-down-noise-sources-on-a-raspberry-pi/



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Jeff07971]

> This setup the pi's switching supply,fuse,protection is all bypassed
> (you can power the pi from it's GPIO pins) -- in addition to the digi+
> not pulling power from the pi--

The "Pi B+" itself (the CPU) will still have 2 "switching" PSU's as it
runs from 3.3V and 1.8V not 5V

U3 on the schematic

Also the later Hifiberry Digi's use the 3.3v from the Pi sourced from
the Switch Mode PSU onboard the Pi



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Jeff07971 wrote:
> The "Pi B+" itself (the CPU) will still have 2 "switching" PSU's as it
> runs from 3.3V and 1.8V not 5V
>
> U3 on the schematic
>
> Also the later Hifiberry Digi's use the 3.3v from the Pi sourced from
> the Switch Mode PSU onboard the Pi

I figured re: the pi since it still needs the 3V, 1.8V

Interesting on the Digi+ -- they specifically added a place for external
5V for this purpose, as I soldered on the header-- suspect that is not
right on the 3V, I'll trace it & ask them.



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Jeff07971]

sckramer wrote:
> I figured re: the pi since it still needs the 3V, 1.8V
>
> Interesting on the Digi+ -- they specifically added a place for external
> 5V for this purpose, as I soldered on the header-- suspect that is not
> right on the 3V, I'll trace it & ask them.


Daniel (HiFiBerry team)

Keymaster

Note that the new HiFiBerry Digi design uses now the 3.3V from the
Raspberry. Therefore it is not easy to power the Digi board separately.

Best regards
Daniel



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

Jeff07971 wrote:
> Daniel (HiFiBerry team)
>
> Keymaster
>
> Note that the new HiFiBerry Digi design uses now the 3.3V from the
> Raspberry. Therefore it is not easy to power the Digi board separately.
>
> Best regards
> Daniel

Bummer, now I'm really gonna bug them about making a digi+ "Pro"

That is an old post about the original Digi-- but I just traced my stock
Digi+ and the 3V is used.

anyway, so its coming down to not using the initial usb switching supply
on the pi and not using a usb power adapter



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[sckramer]

I wonder if the linear 5V is a very pure source for the 3.3/1.8-- as
reading some more on Daniels thread, he could not measure any noise on
the 3.3V on the pi, so it's very well done... not worth trying to
separate it, add a header for 3.3V etc...

Any thoughts?



CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed
TOSlink) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) - trumps sb touch sound
quality
--> Use as spare/reference: Touch (EDO / screen off plugin, removed
analog coupling caps, removed toslink, added output transformer & bnc
jack )
PSAUDIO TRIO C100 - DLIII (Cullen full upg AMP/DAC) - Energy Veritas
w/Custom X-overs - 2x Martin Logan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas Clear
Audio/Power
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Jeff07971]

sckramer wrote:
> I figured re: the pi since it still needs the 3V, 1.8V
>
> Interesting on the Digi+ -- they specifically added a place for external
> 5V for this purpose, as I soldered on the header-- suspect that is not
> right on the 3V, I'll trace it & ask them.

The header is so you can power the Pi and the Dac+ or Digi+ from a
source that is not the microUSB connector. I do this to fit the Pi in a
narrow enclosure.



*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3, Squeezebox Receiver, SqueezePlayer,
PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry DAC+ x2,PiCorePlayer/RPi2/Hifiberry
DAC+Pro,Wandboard SOA
*Server:* Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1444881383 on Centos 7
VM
*Plugins:* AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud
*Remotes:* iPeng8/Orangesqueeze/PC/Jivelite
*Music:* 383GB,1269 albums 17756 songs 4381 artists mostly FLACs

*Want a webapp ?* See
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104305-Webapp-for-LMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[d6jg]

TimT wrote:
> DavidNL,
>
> I just placed an order for a Rasp Pi 2 & Hifiberry DAC+ and the needed
> parts (case, SD card, PSU). Some say that this is a simple DIY project.
> Watch this space; I will let you know if it is.

It is simple. 20 minutes to put it together and have it playing music.
piCorePlayer is the simplest if it is just a player you want.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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