[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New study on vinyl buyers

[Julf]

I guess we won't be too surprised the audiophile mags and websites don't
report this one...

'Vinyl buyers are lonely, middle-aged introverts, according to new
study'
(http://www.factmag.com/2016/08/10/vinyl-buyers-lonely-introverts/)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[doctor_big]

Do you read beyond the click-bait heading? Or is that too much to
expect?




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[RonM]

The header isn't actually at odds with the actual content, although
there is reason to take issue with the content (at least as represented
in the linked article, which is not the original publication).

There is a common but entirely inaccurate perspective that
"introspection" is somehow associated with loneliness and dysfunction.


The degree to which people prefer being alone in the company of their
thoughts vs being gregarious in the company of others is what we call
introversion vs extroversion. We all fall somewhere along an
introversion/extroversion continuum, although there is a fair bit of
evidence that the distribution is bi-modal, not a normal distribution
(the mid-point is not the the top of the curve).

My own observation is that many serious hobbyists (growing plants,
building model trains, furniture making, collecting music) are very
comfortable working on their passionate interests alone. Extroverts
prefer the company of others, in small groups or large. Both types are
less comfortable in the opposite milieu.

So it's extroverts who get lonely when alone, deprived of their social
milieu. And its introverts who can be anxious and uncomfortable at the
party or the dance club.

Neither type is better or worse. We all can function well in, and enjoy,
our non-preferred world from time. The plant grower or the music
hobbyist likes to get together with similar-minded people, to share
ideas and experience and plants and music. The inveterate party-grower
can enjoy a quiet Sunday morning reading the newspaper over coffee and
and listening to the music they heard last night at the club.

So the article content is not surprising, neither its findings about the
characteristics of serious hobbyists nor its negative and spurious take
on these. The whole disparagement-of-introverts thing is a common
cultural meme, but not one that has any real validity. Except for
extroverts who so actively fear solitude.

R.



LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3)
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Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
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Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (WiFi) - home office
Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used),
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[doctor_big]

The header definitely is at odds with the article.

If you prefer being alone, how can you be lonely? It's an inherently
contradictory concept.




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[mlsstl]

I'd agree that the article, in its effort to snidely relish its
"discovery", jumps to conclusions a bit too fast.

As others have noted, being "alone" does not equal "lonely". The first
word simply means you are not with anyone. Like many, I am very
comfortable and happy when I'm alone, whether it is seriously listening
to music, immersed in a book or working on a project of interest to me.
And that does not mean I don't enjoy the company of my family and
friends when doing other things.

The second word describes a feeling of sadness from lack of
companionship. As others have noted, it is perfectly possible to be
alone and happy. Likewise, one can be surrounded in a large crowd and
still be immensely lonely because you're not connecting with others.


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[arnyk]

Post by doctor_big
The header definitely is at odds with the article.
If you prefer being alone, how can you be lonely? It's an inherently
contradictory concept.

Don't forget we're talking about human behavior here, which can be
apparently self-contradictory in many ways, or haven't you noticed?

This is one of them. However it may take introspection or personal
insight to understand it. I can understand how a person that is an
isolated introvert may not understand how this can work.

For example, lets consider a person who "Prefers being alone" because of
feelings of anxiety about associating with strangers. They do enjoy
being with people they know.

In a context where only strangers are available, they may prefer to be
alone, but that does not mean that they don't enjoy being with people
they know when they are available.

Among many people with anxiety, their anxieties may influence them to
avoid doing things that they actually enjoy, once the anxieties are
overcome.


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[arnyk]

Post by doctor_big
The header definitely is at odds with the article.

It takes quite a stretch of imagination to actually believe that, but I
can understand how many vinyl bigots, who are also often in denial about
vinyl's rather grotesque sonic limitations, to be in denial about this
analysis as well.

I find the article in good agreement with itself and some of my
experiences, where I routinely see people who are middle aged or older
collecting vinyl. They often gratuitously assault my sensibilities by
imposing the usual imaginative claims about how vinyl is basically
practically superior to all forms of digital on me.

They can belittle me as they will as I collect CDs and other digital
media, because I understand and have experienced the actual facts of the
matter.

I sold off my extensive vinyl collection after a decent period of
comparing the two. I still have a fairly modern and high quality vinyl
playback system that I use for transcribing legacy performances onto
digital media.

I think its fine that people collect vinyl and listen to it if that's
their preference, as long as they don't impose their preferences on me.
Unfortunately, for many its some kind of religion that they want to
spread to save the world from its headlong and continuing rush to
digital. Something about digital and its better sound quality, far
greater accuracy and avoidance of what most find to be irritating
artifacts.


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[Mnyb]

Post by arnyk
It takes quite a stretch of imagination to actually believe that, but I
can understand how many vinyl bigots, who are also often in denial about
vinyl's rather grotesque sonic limitations, to be in denial about this
analysis as well.
I find the article in good agreement with itself and some of my
experiences, where I routinely see people who are middle aged or older
collecting vinyl. They often gratuitously assault my sensibilities by
imposing the usual imaginative claims about how vinyl is basically
practically superior to all forms of digital on me.
They can belittle me as they will as I collect CDs and other digital
media, because I understand and have experienced the actual facts of the
matter.
I sold off my extensive vinyl collection after a decent period of
comparing the two. I still have a fairly modern and high quality vinyl
playback system that I use for transcribing legacy performances onto
digital media.
I think its fine that people collect vinyl and listen to it if that's
their preference, as long as they don't impose their preferences on me.
Unfortunately, for many its some kind of religion that they want to
spread to save the world from its headlong and continuing rush to
digital. Something about digital and its better sound quality, far
greater accuracy and avoidance of what most find to be irritating
artifacts.

Yea thats one smal camp of vinyl byers and i certainly could have been
one of them , but i eventually weened myself of from the artifacts :D

But the article ignores the larger camp of hipsters that bying vinyl for
the cool factor and some genaral return to physical media because
streaming is not hip :) and yes some much younger (hip) friends of mine
find spotify and other services lacking in content that they want and
consider it mainstream . And get thier special needs trough vinyl .
Some of my younger friends are also interested in older music and then
vinyl for like 1$ a piece is avaible everywhere , you can get a cool
music collection for nothing at fleemarkets etc :)



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http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[wortgefecht]

and yes some much younger (hip) friends of mine find spotify and other
services lacking in content that they want and consider it mainstream .
And get thier special needs trough vinyl .

Vinyl per se is also a mainstream product, too expensive to produce for
the musicians the real conoisseurs of fringe music genres do listen
to. My tape collection is growing (again), though [emoji6]

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 6 mit Tapatalk



New setup:

- ASRock Ion 330, Lubuntu 14.04, LMS 7.9, FLAC
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UE60H6270 > Denon AVR-770SD > Mission 2.1 speakers (living room)
- *Classic* > Parasound DAC 1500 > vintage Wega Modul 42V amp (42E
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[d6jg]

I have quite a large vinyl collection and occasionally I still buy some
second hand albums but only when whatever it is isn't available in
decent form on CD.

I don't like buying downloads - I still prefer CDs that I can rip & tag
as I like.

That said there is something about vinyl that is irreplaceable in any
other medium. It's not sonic quality for sure. For me it's the album
cover. I never bother to read CD liner notes but I always read vinyl
covers!

I do have friends. Honest.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.9 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
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[sckramer]

I'm dabbling w/vinyl -- just to talk intelligently about it, def has
it's charm. Anyway, dumb as shit article :D

20944


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[Archimago]

Post by d6jg
I have quite a large vinyl collection and occasionally I still buy some
second hand albums but only when whatever it is isn't available in
decent form on CD. I don't buy new vinyl as its too expensive as stated
earlier.
I don't like buying downloads - I still prefer CDs that I can rip & tag
as I like.
That said there is something about vinyl that is irreplaceable in any
other medium. It's not sonic quality for sure. For me it's the album
cover. I never bother to read CD liner notes but I always read vinyl
covers!
I do have friends. Honest.

I share the same opinion but I'm sure a much smaller collection - only
about 350 albums. Only started collecting in the last 2 years and at 44
I don't think I'm one of the older LP buyers. I also have a few friends
but probably not ones who write for the audiophile press :-).

I like owning the art work mainly and have a few vinyl picture frames
for my first edition LPs - I have 'Abbey Road' hanging in my sound
room. I guess the physicality of the format provides a subjective sense
of linkage with history and the artist.

I rarely spin vinyl. Typically does not sound as good and certainly not
compared to a decent CD master with room correction...



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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[doctor_big]

The OP relishes the ridicule of those whose listening preferences and
equipment choices do not mesh with his narrow world view.

So it's no surprise that the click bait headline was instantly appealing
and left him feeling smug and self satisfied.




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[Fizbin]

The OP did not inject his opinion. He posted a link to an article.
Nothing more. Someone is being a tad overly sensitive and immature.


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[Julf]

Post by doctor_big
The OP relishes the ridicule of those whose listening preferences and
equipment choices do not mesh with his narrow world view.

I have absolutely no problem with whatever listening preferences people
have, and whatever equipment choices they make. I do have an issue with
people who try to rationalize and defend their choices with
pseudoscience and false claims.

Post by doctor_big
So it's no surprise that the click bait headline was instantly appealing
and left him feeling smug and self satisfied.

My whole point was about how the audiophile press and websites are very
quick to jump on (and feel very smug and self satisfied with) anything
that supports their narrow world view (the erroneous conclusions of the
research into audibility of "high res" formats is a good example), but
ignore anything that goes against it. I guess you missed the
meta-argument and went into "defensive ad-hominem attack" mode about the
specific example.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[doctor_big]

Post by Julf
I have absolutely no problem with whatever listening preferences people
have, and whatever equipment choices they make. I do have an issue with
people who try to rationalize and defend their choices with
pseudoscience and false claims.

Nobody was making any false claims. You simply linked to an article
that utterly misconstrued a survey in a way that validated your narrow
worldview.

Post by Julf
My whole point was about how the audiophile press and websites are very
quick to jump on (and feel very smug and self satisfied with) anything
that supports their narrow world view (the erroneous conclusions of the
research into audibility of "high res" formats is a good example), but
ignore anything that goes against it. I guess you missed the
meta-argument and went into "defensive ad-hominem attack" mode about the
specific example.

There was nothing even remotely relevant to the -audiophile- mindset in
that article. "Meta-argument?" Please. Your entire purpose here in
this sub-forum is to belittle and demean anyone who doesn't think like
you and your little group of sad-sack pseudo-objectivists.

Normally I give your blatherings a wide berth, coming to this forum to
see what's new in the wonderful world of LMS, help what little I can,
and move on. I do that by perusing the unread section in Tapatalk, and
I can usually spot your (I include others like Arny and Ralphy-baby in
this pronoun) bleatings quite easily and thus steer clear.

However this time you caught me - I love vinyl. Listened to it, and
bought it for the last 35 years. I always hated the physical CD medium
- the feel of the discs, their cases, the grinding sound of an opening
CD player door. The small artwork. The brittle hinges on the cases. I
also prefer the sound of LPs (which you'll tell us all now is far
inferior to digital in 3... 2... 1...). Never was I happier than when
CDs started phasing out, replaced by files. The resurgence of LPs also
pleases me, as now I have a larger selection from which to choose.

So I clicked, and clicked through - more fool me. So there's negative
connotations to my age? To the fact that I have disposable income with
which to buy LPs? That I love music? That I enjoy those rare times
when my wife takes our child on an overnighter and I can crank the
system for an evening? That's how you think?

It's a sad little crusade you've got yourself here. You're saving the
world from the big, bad audio press? Hoo, boy! You honestly think that's
a worthy cause on which to hang your hat? Are you sure it's not you
who's the lonely one? It sure seems like you've got nothing else to
do.

Like I said, it's a pathetic cause you're girl-slapping away at here.
I'd wager that you've got a large portion of your self-worth tied up in
convincing everyone who doesn't care that audiophiles are fools, cable
manufacturers are satan incarnate, and magazine reviewers are working
Machiavellian evil, so I'll let you have the last word here - I've got
better things to do.


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[Julf]

Your entire purpose here in this sub-forum is to belittle and demean
anyone who doesn't think like you and your little group of sad-sack
pseudo-objectivists.

If you say so. I just have to point out that it does seem that it is
you, not me, who seems to engage in the belittling, and demeaning
personal attacks.

I do that by perusing the unread section in Tapatalk

Why doesn't that surprise me?

I also prefer the sound of LPs (which you'll tell us all now is far
inferior to digital in 3... 2... 1...).

No need to state the obvious, but if you prefer the limitations of
vinyl, that is your choice.

So there's negative connotations to my age? To the fact that I have
disposable income with which to buy LPs? That I love music? That I
enjoy those rare times when my wife takes our child on an overnighter
and I can crank the system for an evening?

Well, at least that explains your strong reaction.

I've got better things to do.

Clearly.

OK, to be honest - you have my sympathy. I guess I should consider me
fortunate in that my wife doesn't mind me cranking up one of the systems
whenever I want.

I do actually spend a fair bit of time repairing and restoring old audio
gear, including record players. I enjoy the engineering of many of them,
but I am also acutely aware of their limitations.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Fizbin]

Nobody was making any false claims. You simply linked to an article that
utterly misconstrued a survey in a way that validated your narrow
worldview.

Jesus, dude, enough! You're over-analysis of a click-bait link has grown
tiring. Just suck it up and move on.


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[RonM]

Methinks he doth protest too much. . .



LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3)
Transporter (Ethernet) - main listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm
speakers
Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space
Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (WiFi) - home office
Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used),
Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2)
Touch x 1 - spare
UE Radio x 1 - spare
Boom x 1 - spare
Controller x 1 - Spare
Duet Receiver (backup)
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