The Official SB Audiophile Forum Quantum Audio Fruitloopery List

[ralphpnj]

Every so often a phase comes along that almost immediately becomes a
catch phase and so it is with the phase "Quantum Fruitloopery" (with
thanks to andy c for introducing us to this clever little bit of word
play). On the other hand, in the world of high end audio things
(devices, ideas, beliefs, etc.) that are quite clearly fruitloopy come
along on an almost daily basis and so I'm launching this official list
so that we can keep track of the all the audio fruitloopery out there.

Item #1:

Today's mail brought one of my two favorite sources for all things
Quantum Audio Fruitloopy, I'm speaking of course about that fabulous
monthly humor publication "Stereophile" (my other favorite source is
"The Absolute Sound" - bar none the gold standard of Quantum Audio
Fruitloopery). While I have not the chance to sit down and treat myself
to a good laugh I have scanned the through the magazine and discovered
these little gems being advertised:

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/ ($99)

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier/ ($199)

Both of these little wastes of money are fine examples of Quantum Audio
Fruitloopery but their relatively low price (although any price of
something that does absolutely nothing useful is too much) does keep
them from being truly world class Quantum Audio Fruitloopery.

Feel free to add to this list. It doesn't have to be a specific product
so for example one could easily add any/all tubed DACs to the list or
any/all 32 bit audio downloads.

So let's have a little fun picking some low hanging fruit(loopery).



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[Julf]

ralphpnj wrote:
> So let's have a little fun picking some low hanging fruit(loopery).

SBGK's 'MQN Player'
(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/visual-studio-2012-c-and-wasapi-minimalist-player-15401/),
where minor differences in the player software make night and day
differences to the sound.

'Audiophile solder'
(http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/solder/cardas.htm)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[ralphpnj]

Julf wrote:
> SBGK's 'MQN Player'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/visual-studio-2012-c-and-wasapi-minimalist-player-15401/),
> where minor differences in the player software make night and day
> differences to the sound.

Note: bonus points for using the word "quantum". So your statement would
be vastly improved if it read: "minor differences make for a quantum
leap"



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[Mnyb]

Julf wrote:
> SBGK's 'MQN Player'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/visual-studio-2012-c-and-wasapi-minimalist-player-15401/),
> where minor differences in the player software make night and day
> differences to the sound

sadly this can actually be true :( note that I read the word "
differences " literarily .



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[SBGK]

Julf wrote:
> SBGK's 'MQN Player'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/visual-studio-2012-c-and-wasapi-minimalist-player-15401/),
> where minor differences in the player software make night and day
> differences to the sound.
>
> 'Audiophile solder'
> (http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/solder/cardas.htm)

It wasn't my fault you got banned from computer audiophile and tirna
hifi, but thanks for the shout out.



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[ralphpnj]

SBGK wrote:
> It wasn't my fault you got banned from computer audiophile and tirna
> hifi, but thanks for the shout out.

Julf - you are banned from Computer Audiophile - good work and
congratulations!

There is one thing about Computer Audiophile that I admire - the site's
founder (whose name escapes me) started out as just another audiophile
but thanks to the unrelenting kowtowing to the lords of high end audio,
by which I mean the Computer Audiophile's willingness to spread all the
lies and misconceptions spouted by the high end audio press and many
manufacturers, he as now become an industry insider and has been granted
all the privileges that come along with insider status, such as the
ability to get "loans" of some very nice audio equipment as well other
special treatment from the industry. Good work.

By the way, I hope most of you understand why I put the word "loans" in
quotes :)



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
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& Energy sub
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[darrenyeats]

Mnyb wrote:
>
> IMHO it's a myth that it is always smps power supplies that dirties the
> network , linear supplies can do this too and some smps supplies are
> decently filtered and do not pose a problem .
> A bad power supply can polute the mains .
>
Mynb, agreed, I didn't mean to imply it was universally true, it's just
my modus operandi.



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[Mnyb]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Mynb, agreed, I didn't mean to imply it was universally true, it's just
> my modus operandi.

Ok :) no problem .

Meridian and Linn uses them for example .

I have a feeling that they might actually be defacto standard very soon
( if not already )



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[SBGK]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Julf - you are banned from Computer Audiophile - good work and
> congratulations!
>
> There is one thing about Computer Audiophile that I admire - the site's
> founder (whose name escapes me) started out as just another audiophile
> but thanks to the unrelenting kowtowing to the lords of high end audio,
> by which I mean the Computer Audiophile's willingness to spread all the
> lies and misconceptions spouted by the high end audio press and many
> manufacturers, he as now become an industry insider and has been granted
> all the privileges that come along with insider status, such as the
> ability to get "loans" of some very nice audio equipment as well other
> special treatment from the industry. Good work.
>
> By the way, I hope most of you understand why I put the word "loans" in
> quotes :)
>
> Edit: I really should not say "admire" since the admirable thing to do
> with the Computer Audiophile site would have been to try to disprove and
> dispel all the lies and misconceptions spouted by the high end audio
> press but then he would have to actually buy all that fancy equipment
> now being "loaned" to him.
>
> Bribery, in all it's forms, whether outright or hidden (i.e. equipment
> "loans" and insider pricing), is a very useful tool.

ralph, hope your health isn't affected by the constant stream of bile
you spout forth. It's only hifi. Perhaps you need another hobby.



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[ralphpnj]

SBGK wrote:
> ralph, hope your health isn't affected by the constant stream of bile
> you spout forth. It's only hifi. Perhaps you need another hobby.

Quite right: it is only hifi but then again it is very representative of
the overall level of complete and utter dishonesty that exists at all
levels of society.

Audiophiles dismiss hard science whenever it suits their purposes and so
it seems does just about everyone else. In the business of selling
fossil fuels, then climate change is a hoax. In the business of selling
expensive USB cables then the science behind the transmission of digital
data is not well understood or some such nonsense.

There is a big difference between things that simply opinions and things
that are facts. Facts do not need to be believed in order to be true,
they simply are true.

And so I reiterate: the Computer Audiophile could have evolved into a
worthwhile site filled with lots myth busting FACTS, instead it has
evolved in just another high end trash bin filled with all the lies and
misconceptions used to sell worthless products.

On the other hand you, SBGK are a lost cause but then again it's your
time and money to throw away and you apparently have plenty of both to
waste.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
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[Julf]

SBGK wrote:
> It wasn't my fault you got banned from computer audiophile and tirna
> hifi, but thanks for the shout out.

Indeed. In no way your fault that as soon as I made my first posting,
you stated that you refused to participate in the forum as long as I was
a member. True.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[lrossouw]

It seems to me that people with particular views (including those that
some software v14.2 sounds better than v14.1) have the ability to lock
themselves in a virtual room with others that share the same views and
reinforce those views, by ejecting those with opposing views.

I hope that:
a) I don't reinforce this kind of behaviour.
b) I remain open to opposing views.

It does become trickier when the opposing views lacks all scientific
method. I'm happy to accept that you subjectively find something
"better" or "suitable" but if you want to say that it's objectively
better you are going to have to prove it.



Louis
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[Julf]

lrossouw wrote:
> It does become trickier when the opposing views lacks all scientific
> method. I'm happy to accept that you subjectively find something
> "better" or "suitable" but if you want to say that it's objectively
> better you are going to have to prove it.

Agree. Just like there is per se is nothing wrong in believing in
unicorns and fairies, it becomes an issue with faith healers and con
artists.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[lrossouw]

I hope I do not stir with this New Yorker article but the thoughts seem
very relevant. I do not want to have a debate about something else(
e.g. whether the earth rotates the sun or not) but this is very good
explanation why people do this kind of thing.

What is interesting to me is that the effect works both ways. Peoples
beliefs (good or bad) stop them from seeing/accepting the truth.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/mariakonnikova/2014/05/why-do-people-persist-in-believing-things-that-just-arent-true.html



Louis
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[Mnyb]

lrossouw wrote:
> I hope I do not stir with this New Yorker article but the thoughts seem
> very relevant. I do not want to have a debate about something else(
> e.g. whether the earth rotates the sun or not) but this is very good
> explanation why people do this kind of thing.
>
> What is interesting to me is that the effect works both ways. Peoples
> beliefs (good or bad) stop them from seeing/accepting the truth.
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/mariakonnikova/2014/05/why-do-people-persist-in-believing-things-that-just-arent-true.html

What a sad article :( but its how it is .



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sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Julf]

lrossouw wrote:
> What is interesting to me is that the effect works both ways. Peoples
> beliefs (good or bad) stop them from seeing/accepting the truth.


'Confirmation Bias' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_Bias)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[darrenyeats]

lrossouw wrote:
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/mariakonnikova/2014/05/why-do-people-persist-in-believing-things-that-just-arent-true.html
Sorry, rant mode on!

As usual, nothing new to be learned from such psychological studies.
Next, people who get burned have a pre-disposition not to put their
hands in fires?! It's not psychology, neurology or evolutionary biology,
it's just common sense.

Anyone who is against vaccines, for example, is by association obviously
distrustful of the motives of the establishment and the health industry.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand they're going to bridle
when given a leaflet.

Rant mode off!



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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[Julf]

darrenyeats wrote:
> For example, it's obvious someone who is against vaccines is very likely
> to be distrustful of the motives of the establishment and the health
> industry.

Just like someone who believes in UFOs is very likely to be distrustful
of the motives of the establishment and the scientific community - after
all, we *know* they are hiding the bodies of aliens at area 51. It is
also just like someone who believes in all kinds of quantum audio
fruitloopery is very likely to be distrustful of the motives of the
establishment and the scientific community as well - after all, those
engineers with their digital teories and measurements are just trying to
deprive the people of real musical enjoyment...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[darrenyeats]

Julf, I think we agree about what the study involved and what its
conclusions were. I'm just saying the result was no surprise!



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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[Julf]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Julf, I think we agree about what the study involved and what its
> conclusions were. I'm just saying the result was no surprise!

I agree. But a lot of scientific research involves actually confirming
things that come as no surprise to anyone.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Julf]

... goes to Helmut Brinkmann of Brinkmann Audio GmbH, manufacturer of
the Balance 2 vinyl player and RöNt II power supply.

I happened to read the review in Hi-Fi News (the only non-pro audio mag
I still subscribe to - they used to be pretty good, with decent
measurements for the "hi-res" record reviews etc., but seem to be going
downhill).

In the review, there is a breakout box with Helmut Brinkmann explaining
why the RöNt II (how do they come up with these names?) power supply is
equipped with valves. I quote:

> The tubes in the RöNt II act like a a mains power conditioner, due to
> their vacuum. Additionally, they add all the sonic advantages of tubes
> like better texture and musical flow, just as in a good amp.

So this is in the power supply that drives the turntable motor.

Unfortunately the reviewer, Adam Smith, doesn't question this at all.
Great example of cargo cult science (or sympathetic magic and voodoo).
Tubes, when used in amplifiers, provide "sonic advantages" such as
"better texture and musical flow", so naturally they convey the same
benefits even if not in any way part of the signal path - simply by
being there. Due to their vacuum, I guess...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Wombat]

Julf wrote:
>
> It is german.
>
> Röhre = Tube
> Netzteil = PSU (short form Nt)
>
> RöNt = Tube-PSU
>
> It is that simple.



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[Julf]

Wombat wrote:
> RöNt = Tube-PSU

Ah! Should have figured that out...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Mnyb]

Julf wrote:
> ... goes to Helmut Brinkmann of Brinkmann Audio GmbH, manufacturer of
> the Balance 2 vinyl player and RöNt II power supply.
>
> I happened to read the review in Hi-Fi News (the only non-pro audio mag
> I still subscribe to - they used to be pretty good, with decent
> measurements for the "hi-res" record reviews etc., but seem to be going
> downhill).
>
> In the review, there is a breakout box with Helmut Brinkmann explaining
> why the RöNt II (how do they come up with these names?) power supply is
> equipped with valves. I quote:
>
>
>
> So this is in the power supply that drives the turntable motor.
>
> Unfortunately the reviewer, Adam Smith, doesn't question this at all.
> Great example of cargo cult science (or sympathetic magic and voodoo).
> Tubes, when used in amplifiers, provide "sonic advantages" such as
> "better texture and musical flow", so naturally they convey the same
> benefits even if not in any way part of the signal path - simply by
> being there. Due to their vacuum, I guess...

Yes and ze germans also have transrotor.... :)



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[ralphpnj]

Julf wrote:
> ... goes to Helmut Brinkmann of Brinkmann Audio GmbH, manufacturer of
> the Balance 2 vinyl player and RöNt II power supply.
>
> I happened to read the review in Hi-Fi News (the only non-pro audio mag
> I still subscribe to - they used to be pretty good, with decent
> measurements for the "hi-res" record reviews etc., but seem to be going
> downhill).
>
> In the review, there is a breakout box with Helmut Brinkmann explaining
> why the RöNt II (how do they come up with these names?) power supply is
> equipped with valves. I quote:
>
>
>
> So this is in the power supply that drives the turntable motor.
>
> Unfortunately the reviewer, Adam Smith, doesn't question this at all.
> Great example of cargo cult science (or sympathetic magic and voodoo).
> Tubes, when used in amplifiers, provide "sonic advantages" such as
> "better texture and musical flow", so naturally they convey the same
> benefits even if not in any way part of the signal path - simply by
> being there. Due to their vacuum, I guess...

Awesome!

I love the phrase "better texture and musical flow". I think that
perhaps adding some Teflon to the power supply would help with both
texture (smooth) and flow (non-stick). But seriously what the hell does
"texture" refer to? Oh wait, it must be just some sort of bad
translation from German to English that produced such a WTF phrase.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[mlsstl]

Audiophiles could generate more than their fair share of eligible
entries for the annual Bulwer-Lytton bad prose contest. (In 1830, Edward
George Bulwer-Lytton opened his book with the infamous phrase "It was a
dark and stormy night....")

However, they seem to be sending their manuscripts to audio magazines
instead, apparently in the belief that they are good writers.


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[probedb]

I'm not sure if this one has been posted yet:

http://www.cyrusaudio.com/faq-what-is-servo-evolution

I asked them how they did their testing etc etc and oddly enough, no
response ;)



'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb)
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[ralphpnj]

probedb wrote:
> I'm not sure if this one has been posted yet:
>
> http://www.cyrusaudio.com/faq-what-is-servo-evolution
>
> I asked them how they did their testing etc etc and oddly enough, no
> response ;)

While many of their assertions are a little far fetched at least the
overall concept of a revised CD drive is based on a real problem -
namely that errors occur while a CD is being read. The sad part is that
little silver disc based playback is fast becoming a thing of the past,
at least of the public at large, the audiophile community is another
story altogether.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Mnyb]

probedb wrote:
> I'm not sure if this one has been posted yet:
>
> http://www.cyrusaudio.com/faq-what-is-servo-evolution
>
> I asked them how they did their testing etc etc and oddly enough, no
> response ;)

But why not just do as My Meridian disc spinner actually use a Rom drive
speed up the disc faster than needed and read several times very good
retrieval and you can use standard drives instead of a custom part ?

Ahh and the brinkman unit , it start sto all sink in :D tubes to the
f**ing motor drive and the platter weigth 18kg anyway ? And the the time
constant in the thin drive belt ? Exactly how is that musical flow
coming from the rÖNt supply over the motor and belt thougth the plater
etc :P a clear case off let's stick some toobs in here somewhere , the
marks seems to like 'em .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[c3p0]

After 6 seconds of treatment by the LP Energizer, the record will carry
a PVA Field (Proton Vibration Alignment Field) that will last for 120
minutes. Once the record is placed on the record player turntable, the
entire signal path and equipment in the AV system within 1 meter of the
record player will be inuenced by the PVA Field. This means all the
equipment will perform better.

In addition, the motions of atmospheric content – mainly air molecules –
will also be aligned. Once the micro-phase alignment has taken place,
the signal loss in the equipment and the sound transmission loss in air
will be minimized. The result will be an audio experience like never
before heard.

See it here http://innoworkspc.com/en/product/ap102

Plus they are flogging the euphoric technology as a health device too
with the iwand, looks like something you might as well stick up your
a$$, after all it might improve your hearing.
http://www.drinktohealing.com/uploads/iWand_Flyer_11-12.pdf

I love how the they use quantum mechanics and nanotechnology in their
description with quantum being a vastly superior technology to nano, was
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle about not being sure if the wool
was being pulled over your eyes?


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[ralphpnj]

c3p0 wrote:
> After 6 seconds of treatment by the LP Energizer, the record will carry
> a PVA Field (Proton Vibration Alignment Field) that will last for 120
> minutes. Once the record is placed on the record player turntable, the
> entire signal path and equipment in the AV system within 1 meter of the
> record player will be inuenced by the PVA Field. This means all the
> equipment will perform better.
>
> In addition, the motions of atmospheric content – mainly air molecules –
> will also be aligned. Once the micro-phase alignment has taken place,
> the signal loss in the equipment and the sound transmission loss in air
> will be minimized. The result will be an audio experience like never
> before heard.
>
> See it here http://innoworkspc.com/en/product/ap102
>
> Plus they are flogging the euphoric technology as a health device too
> with the iwand, looks like something you might as well stick up your
> a$$, after all it might improve your hearing.
> http://www.drinktohealing.com/uploads/iWand_Flyer_11-12.pdf
>
> I love how the they use quantum mechanics and nanotechnology in their
> description with quantum being a vastly superior technology to nano, was
> the Heisenberg uncertainty principle about not being sure if the wool
> was being pulled over your eyes?

Thanks for this most welcome addition to the List. I'm sure that we if
had a ranking system for the list this one would at or near the top. A
true classic worthy of the Magic Clock award.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Mnyb]

Ah the chief fruit looper is still around/alive
http://pwbelectronics.co.uk Peter W Belt :)

The products are hard to describe it have ranged from tweezers to pinch
your CDs with and magic paper clips to hang in your curtains and
specialy treated spiratube to wrap around your cables and the mystical
cream electret to smear on inside products and even your fuse box .
He's been around doing this since the early 80's so I count him as
inspirational to other audio quaks .

He have been around so long that quantum is not mentioned only mystical
electrical fields of course unmeasurable :D
I just assumed that everyone know of this guy ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Mnyb]

Sorry there is actually the quantum clip
http://pwbelectronics.co.uk/product/quantum/quantum.html :) :)

Another candidate is his red x pen



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Gandhi]

Mnyb wrote:
> Sorry there is actually the quantum clip
> http://pwbelectronics.co.uk/product/quantum/quantum.html :) :)
>
> Another candidate is his red x pen

Good stuff. Reeaally good stuff.

But I have to wonder if he makes any money at all. Is it actually
possible for someone - anyone - in the world to believe this f'loopery?



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[garym]

Mnyb wrote:
> Sorry there is actually the quantum clip
> http://pwbelectronics.co.uk/product/quantum/quantum.html :) :)
>

Surely his stuff is a joke? An alligator clip with a piece of wire
attached. Really? I love that one needs to treat BOTH sides of a door.

"It is not necessary to always grip an object with the Quantum Clip to
produce the beneficial effect. It is only necessary to press the leading
edge of the jaws in the closed position so that the Clip makes contact
with the object, for the treatment to be successfully applied. This
facilitates the treatment of doors, windows. etc."



*Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Streaming - Spotify
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[Apesbrain]

Mnyb wrote:
> Ah the chief fruit looper is still around/alive
> http://pwbelectronics.co.uk Peter W Belt :)
-First time I experienced Belt treatments. Had no clue what Carol was up
to as I was in the other room, though I did know she was playing around
with something audio. She asked me to come in and give a listen, but
with the following constraints: 1) I had to play the same track three
times in a row, and 2) I could not open my eyes during the session. Easy
as pie! Out came my favorite Lambchop disc -What Another Man Spoils- and
on went track 1. Hit play and "Sounds fine Carol, sounds like it usually
does; great recording, fun music, love it!" She hits Stop and after a
few seconds, she hits Play again, and like "WOW, this sounds much
better! Way more musical and golly-gosh-gee, this is really cool!" She
hits Stop and a minute later, she hits Play again, and shit! I mean
SHIT, this sounds like shit! Not the shit, but shit. Not more than 5
seconds into the track and STOP IT NOW BEFORE I TEAR MY EARS OFF! What
did you do? "Well, the first time nothing, the second time I wrote
'Reimer > O.K!' with this red pen on a piece of tape and placed one on
the top of each speaker, and the third time I replaced the tape with
another that said 'Reimer > BAD.'" Huh, sounded as it usually did with
nothing on the speaker, sounded really great when you wrote O.K, and
sound really bad when you wrote Bad. Weird.
- Dave Clark-

Weird, indeed!

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue30/belt.htm


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[Gandhi]

After reading the interview in Stereophile,
http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-112, where Belt explains
the process of finding things that improves the sound, I don't think
Belt is kidding and I don't think he's making any money either. Truly
sad story.

I can only put him in the same category as the neurosurgeon Dr Eben
Alexander, the author of the priceless book "Proof of Heaven". (If you
haven't read it, I can highly recommend doing so. It's on an entirely
new level. Being absolutely brilliant in one highly specialized and
advanced field obviously doesn't make one immune to the most hideous
misconceptions in even precisely that field.)

Oh, and don't miss out on the positive review of the Cream Electret:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-113.



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[jimbobvfr400]

Gandhi wrote:
> After reading the interview in Stereophile,
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-112, where Belt explains
> the process of finding things that improves the sound, I don't think
> Belt is kidding and I don't think he's making any money either. Truly
> sad story.
>

The last comment on that article does have a point though :)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk




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[Gandhi]

jimbobvfr400 wrote:
> The last comment on that article does have a point though :)

:)



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[induna]

I'll say it again. P.T. Barnum vastly underestimated the human capacity
for credulity. The fact that any of these people can sell anything, let
alone have passionate followers of their products, clearly demonstrates
how vanishingly thin the veneer of scientific understanding actually is
for many people. (As if we needed more evidence.)


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[ralphpnj]

Another top notch fruitlooper also on par with Mr. Belt is Geoff Kait of
Machina Dynamica (http://www.machinadynamica.com/). The Brilliant
Pebbles are truly a classic.

By the way, the Stereophile forum (or rather what remains of the forum)
is filled with posts by this charlatan, which is perhaps the reason why
the Stereophile forum is completely useless.

Crack open a nice cold beer, pour a nice glass of wine or mix your
favorite drink then click on the Machina Dynamica link and enjoy.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[lrossouw]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Another top notch fruitlooper also on par with Mr. Belt is Geoff Kait of
> Machina Dynamica (http://www.machinadynamica.com/). The Brilliant
> Pebbles are truly a classic.
>
> By the way, the Stereophile forum (or rather what remains of the forum)
> is filled with posts by this charlatan, which is perhaps the reason why
> the Stereophile forum is completely useless.
>
> Crack open a nice cold beer, pour a nice glass of wine or mix your
> favorite drink then click on the Machina Dynamica link and enjoy.

The further down you go on that page the more wacky it gets. The last
couple of products include:
- Flying Saucers for Windows
- Frog Jump in Water Sound Tweak - (Bowls of Water). Using ordinary
water. $29, includes instructions + 4 plastic bowls.
- CD Re-Animator Multicolor Stroboscopic Light Gun



Louis
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/lrossouw)
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[bonze]

lrossouw wrote:
> The further down you go on that page the more wacky it gets. The last
> couple of products include:
> - Flying Saucers for Windows
> - Frog Jump in Water Sound Tweak - (Bowls of Water). Using ordinary
> water. $29, includes instructions + 4 plastic bowls.
> - CD Re-Animator Multicolor Stroboscopic Light GunYou missed the best one.....
Teleportation Tweak: "The Only Audio Product that doesn't Require
Shipping"
A 20 second phone call for $60



LMS Version: 7.9
TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011
2x Touch, 3x SB3
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[Grumpy Bob]

Does this count as quantum fruitloopery?
http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-galileo-le-usb-cable
$2000 per meter USB cable with "quantum tunnelling". The comments in
response to a couple of sane commenters are amusing too.

Robert



Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar
3 and Naim CD3)
2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3
SqueezePad, iPeng, Squeezeplay, piCorePlayer/HiFiBerry,
SqueezePlug/Wolfson on a Pi
QNAP TS-239, LMS 7.8
last.fm/user/GrumpyBob
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[ralphpnj]

Grumpy Bob wrote:
> Does this count as quantum fruitloopery?
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-galileo-le-usb-cable
> $2000 per meter USB cable with "quantum tunnelling". The comments in
> response to a couple of sane commenters are amusing too.
>
> Robert

High end USB cables are the bedrock of Quantum Fruitlooery and the
$2,000 Synergistic USB cable is truly top shelf fruitloopery. When
Stereophile frist launched the audiostream.com site Michael Lavorgna,
the lead writer for audiostream.com, (who did NOT write the review of
the Synergistic USB cable) actually showed that he almost understood
computers and digital audio but then the hammer came down and now he is
as big a clown as the rest of the Stereophile staff.

I quite agree that even trying to inject some scientific truths into any
audiophile discussion has now become very taboo and only leaves oneself
open to all kinds of ridicule from the brain dead audiophiles who made
up the bulk of this once worthwhile hobby. I loved the "Objective Data"
comment: classic audiophile cherry picking of completely irrelevant
information. I'm sure that Henry Ott would be amused and amazed that his
work is being so badly distorted.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[induna]

Grumpy Bob wrote:
> Does this count as quantum fruitloopery?
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-galileo-le-usb-cable
> $2000 per meter USB cable with "quantum tunnelling". The comments in
> response to a couple of sane commenters are amusing too.
>
> Robert

OK, I just love this one:

" Next, we Quantum Tunnel the transformer’s primary wind in the
direction of signal (electron) flow, followed by the secondary wind,
again in the direction of signal flow."

Disregarding the nonsense of 'Quantum Tunneling' (I guess if something
is capitalized it must be true.), how in heck can anything be done to a
transformer in the 'direction of signal flow'. Transformers are AC
devices and the current -- who would have thought-- alternates.
Furthermore, the transformer being discussed is in a power supply where
there is no 'signal'. Geesh.

I think the online phishing folks should seriously concentrate on
hacking the subscription lists for Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.
Surely if their subscribers are able to believe this dreck they'll also
being willing to send their bank account information to a Nigerian
Prince for $50,000,000.


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[ralphpnj]

induna wrote:
> Disregarding the nonsense of 'Quantum Tunneling' (I guess if something
> is capitalized it must be true.)

Don't forget that in addition to the capitalization there is also the
use of the very holy word "Quantum". A double whammy!

The use of the word "quantum" implies the following:

1) that whatever the word quantum refers to is very scientific

2) It cannot be understood by anyone without a PhD in nuclear physics

3) No price is too high for the product

"Quantum" may well be the ultimate word for introducing FUD (fear,
uncertainty and doubt) since real quantum mechanics relies heavily on
the good old uncertainty principle.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle).



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[TheLastMan]

induna wrote:
> OK, I just love this one:
>
> " Next, we Quantum Tunnel the transformer’s primary wind in the
> direction of signal (electron) flow, followed by the secondary wind,
> again in the direction of signal flow."
>
> Disregarding the nonsense of 'Quantum Tunneling' (I guess if something
> is capitalized it must be true.), how in heck can anything be done to a
> transformer in the 'direction of signal flow'. Transformers are AC
> devices and the current -- who would have thought-- alternates.
> Furthermore, the transformer being discussed is in a power supply where
> there is no 'signal'. Geesh.
>
> I think the online phishing folks should seriously concentrate on
> hacking the subscription lists for Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.
> Surely if their subscribers are able to believe this dreck they'll also
> be willing to send their bank account information to a Nigerian Prince
> for $50,000,000.
Ah, but it makes all those ones so much more, er.. "onesie" and the
zeros are Quantum Tunnelled, which makes them so much more "zerotic".

These guys are truly deluded and need to get a life. A heavy metal
concert, front row, next to the *really* big boxes and with the volume
controls turned to 11, followed by a couple of noisy dance clubs on a
Saturday night, with funny substances thrown in. That should put
obsessing over a USB cable into perspective - and they might even get
laid!

Some things are more fun than hi-fi...



Matt
http://www.last.fm/user/MJL-UK
SQUEEZEBOXES:[/B] TWO SB DUETS (LIVING ROOM AND KITCHEN) AND A
*'PICOREPLAYER' (HTTPS://SITES.GOOGLE.COM/SITE/PICOREPLAYER/HOME)
[b]Server:* Synology DS111 (2TB) NAS running LMS 7.7.3 (official
Synology package)
*Network:* Netgear DG834GT ADSL modem/router, Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH
access point
*Livingroom:* Receiver, Naim 42/110 amp, B&W CM2 speakers
*Kitchen:* Receiver, Topping TP20 Mk2 Class T amp, B&W 686 speakers
*Study:* Linn LP12, Naim 72/Hi-cap/Headline
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[Mnyb]

TheLastMan wrote:
> Ah, but it makes all those ones so much more, er.. "onesie" and the
> zeros are Quantum Tunnelled, which makes them so much more "zerotic".
>
> These guys are truly deluded and need to get a life. A heavy metal
> concert, front row, next to the *really* big boxes and with the volume
> controls turned to 11, followed by a couple of noisy dance clubs on a
> Saturday night, with funny substances thrown in. That should put
> obsessing over a USB cable into perspective - and they might even get
> laid!
>
> Some things are more fun than hi-fi...

Are you sure :)

I actually wonder why stereophile ever published this column ? if this
is the end state of audiophilia , it should deter a lot of folks to
catch it and thus it would not serverthe cult ?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/death-audiophile



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Mnyb]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Another top notch fruitlooper also on par with Mr. Belt is Geoff Kait of
> Machina Dynamica (http://www.machinadynamica.com/). The Brilliant
> Pebbles are truly a classic.
>
> By the way, the Stereophile forum (or rather what remains of the forum)
> is filled with posts by this charlatan, which is perhaps the reason why
> the Stereophile forum is completely useless.
>
> Crack open a nice cold beer, pour a nice glass of wine or mix your
> favorite drink then click on the Machina Dynamica link and enjoy.

I think mr Kait is a cynical copycat off mr belt...

PWB is probably nuts for real :/



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[bonze]

Julf wrote:
> Indeed. All you did was state "please ban this troll, I won't post until
> he is". It is not your fault that your followers and as a result the
> moderators actually headed that message :)So he named his software after you. That's either very sweet or very
creepy.....



LMS Version: 7.9
TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011
2x Touch, 3x SB3
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[Julf]

bonze wrote:
> So he named his software after you. That's either very sweet or very
> creepy.....

Indeed. And while I think it is an honor to have softẃare named
after you, it is somewhat moderated by the usefulness (or rather lack of
it) of this particular piece of software.

At least SBGK understands the GNU General Public License a bit better
now, so something good did come out of it after all.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[marflao]

Nice thread :-)

I'll definitely like to add those so called "cable elevators" (e. g.
http://www.hifi.com.sg/products/accessory/shunyata/darkfield.htm)... But
hey... maybe I'm mistaken and they bring you nearer to "audio heaven"
;-)




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[Mnyb]

This tread is not complete without the classical quantum purifiers that
gets added to everything by many garage outfits .

http://bybeetech.com

Worst case they actually do something , like a small series resistance
that you did not need :)



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[andy_c]

ralphpnj wrote:
> On the other hand, in the world of high end audio things (devices,
> ideas, beliefs, etc.) that are quite clearly fruitloopy come along on an
> almost daily basis and so I'm launching this official list so that we
> can keep track of the all the audio fruitloopery out there.

Sounds like fun! :D

How about the '_Synergistic_Research_Tranquility_Base_'
(http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-tranquility-base)?

The author makes use of one of my favorite memes of the audiophool
press. I call it the "feigned skepticism meme". In this meme, the
writer claims to have been skeptical of the alleged benefits of a device
prior to using it, in an attempt to make the con more effective.

> Given the number of audiophile tweaks that exist, I entered this
> testing with quite a bit of skepticism. [...] But having previously met
> Ted Denney of Synergistic Research, I knew that he was not in the habit
> of exaggerating his products capabilities.

Another favorite of mine is the '_solid_marble_outlet_strip_'
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOwqyWdsWrE&list=UUo8e3GYwQGncHKIucUOxGfg)
(err, sorry, "power distributor"). The guy doing the video, Peter
Breuninger, also uses the feigned skepticism meme at about 1 minute in.


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[ralphpnj]

andy_c wrote:
> Sounds like fun! :D
>
> How about the '_Synergistic_Research_Tranquility_Base_'
> (http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-tranquility-base)?
>
> The author makes use of one of my favorite memes of the audiophool
> press. I call it the "feigned skepticism meme". In this meme, the
> writer claims to have been skeptical of the alleged benefits of a device
> prior to using it, in an attempt to make the con more effective.
>
> Another favorite of mine is the '_solid_marble_outlet_strip_'
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOwqyWdsWrE&list=UUo8e3GYwQGncHKIucUOxGfg)
> (err, sorry, "power distributor"). The guy doing the video, Peter
> Breuninger, also uses the feigned skepticism meme at about 1 minute in.

Excellent additions however the entire post would have sounded vastly
better if you had just written "feigned -*quantum-* skepticism meme".

Remember that whenever one is writing about the lunatic fringe of high
end audio adding the word "quantum" ALWAYS improves things.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[andy_c]

Well, since I left out the word "quantum" in my last post, I'll try to
make up for that by linking to the '_Synergistic_Research_Quantum_Fuse_'
(http://www.synergisticresearch.com/featured/new-category-synergistic-research-quantum-fuses-furutech-hifituningsupreme-fuses/)
page. :)

> Synergistic Research Quantum Fuses employ a custom alloy treated with
> 2,000,000 volts of electricity! SR Quantum Fuses significantly
> outperform all other high-end fuses on the market and are guaranteed to
> deliver a noticeable increase in sound staging, resolution and air
> thanks to a lower noise floor and blacker backgrounds.


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[ralphpnj]

andy_c wrote:
> Well, since I left out the word "quantum" in my last post, I'll try to
> make up for that by linking to the '_Synergistic_Research_Quantum_Fuse_'
> (http://www.synergisticresearch.com/featured/new-category-synergistic-research-quantum-fuses-furutech-hifituningsupreme-fuses/)
> page. :)
>
> Edit: It's nice to know that Ted Denney is "not in the habit of
> exaggerating his products' capabilities".

Perfect! Perhaps as the list grows we will be able to introduce a
Fruitloopery Hall of Shame, complete with a Synergistic Research wing!



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[JJZolx]

Where's the "Everything sounds the same" forum when you really need it?


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[darrenyeats]

JJZolx wrote:
> Where's the "Everything sounds the same" forum when you really need it?
Touche.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[swhite58]

JJZolx wrote:
> Where's the "Everything sounds the same" forum when you really need it?

Yes, definitely required. The Axiom Audio forum would qualify for that.
They're really nice guys though.



Ubuntu file server ->Dell Laptop with Squeezelite->HRT Music Streamer II
USB DAC>NAD C320BEE->Usher S-520
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[andy_c]

Just ran across the "'_My_Time_At_Hovland_'
(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/227913-my-time-hovland-hp-100-lore.html)"
thread at diyaudio.com. Funny stuff!


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[Julf]

andy_c wrote:
> Just ran across the "'_My_Time_At_Hovland_'
> (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/227913-my-time-hovland-hp-100-lore.html)"
> thread at diyaudio.com. Funny stuff!

Excellent!



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Gandhi]

andy_c wrote:
> Just ran across the "'_My_Time_At_Hovland_'
> (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/227913-my-time-hovland-hp-100-lore.html)"
> thread at diyaudio.com. Funny stuff!

Hilarious! Especially that some people actually defend this <beep bip
beeeeep>!

How does one avoid becoming (even more) cynical with the accumulation of
knowledge? Please let me know.



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[Julf]

Gandhi wrote:
> How does one avoid becoming (even more) cynical with the accumulation of
> knowledge? Please let me know.

If you find out, please let me know as well!



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Mnyb]

andy_c wrote:
> Just ran across the "'_My_Time_At_Hovland_'
> (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/227913-my-time-hovland-hp-100-lore.html)"
> thread at diyaudio.com. Funny stuff!

when you heard it all ,we get tube dowsing :D

Sometimes I try to will the next big asteroid down......



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[foxx]

I'd like to add the whole of the NAIM forum:

'http://http://forums.naimaudio.com/forums'
(http://forums.naimaudio.com/forums)


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[Julf]

foxx wrote:
> I'd like to add the whole of the NAIM forum

In that case, I nominate all of Computer Audiophool.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Mnyb]

foxx wrote:
> I'd like to add the whole of the NAIM forum:
>
> 'http://http://forums.naimaudio.com/forums'
> (http://forums.naimaudio.com/forums)

Julf wrote:
> In that case, I nominate all of Computer Audiophool.

The may be quantum entangled ! all kinds off pseudo knowledge is
propagated emidietly in these circles :)



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[andy_c]

Julf wrote:
> In that case, I nominate all of Computer Audiophool.

One of my favorite posts over there is '_this_one_by_Cookie_Marenco_'
(http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/sound-better-uncompressed-downloaded-files-6158/#post70764),
in which she claims that sound quality of music files degrades when sent
by email, and that different file formats have different susceptibility
to this "problem". :D

> We tested the customer experience by emailing the audio.. both the FLAC
> (at its least damaging compression) and the full sized 96 24 file (in
> uncompressed Zip) of the same music. We then opened them up,
> reconstituted and played back through several listening and playback
> configurations. We compared against the original 96 24 audio the files
> that the audio files were made from. Roch posted my results. FLAC was
> close, but not close enough.
>
> At the time, I was more curious if emailing audio and broadband would
> destroy bits of information. We decided that the uncompressed 96 zip was
> the least damaging (though almost not existent, there is a slight
> degradation, not as much as FLAC).


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[Julf]

andy_c wrote:
> One of my favorite posts over there is '_this_one_by_Cookie_Marenco_'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/sound-better-uncompressed-downloaded-files-6158/#post70764),
> in which she claims that sound quality of music files degrades when sent
> by email, and that different file formats have different susceptibility
> to this "problem". :D

Ah, yes. And that reminds me of another thing about audiophoolery - who
needs science, when you can refer to a person of "acknowledged expertise
and authority".



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[bakker_be]

andy_c wrote:
> One of my favorite posts over there is '_this_one_by_Cookie_Marenco_'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/sound-better-uncompressed-downloaded-files-6158/#post70764),
> in which she claims that sound quality of music files degrades when sent
> by email, and that different file formats have different susceptibility
> to this "problem". :D

That would also explain why my boss never seems to understand when I
send him an e-mail. If audio is affected, surely a mere Word document is
too?



Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004; TMA Premium 905; TMA Premium 901;
BK Monolith+ FF; HDI Dune Smart D1; Pioneer PDP-LX5090H
iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated)
Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer
Wandboard Duallite + CSOS, integrated LMS activated
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[ralphpnj]

JJZolx wrote:
> Where's the "Everything sounds the same" forum when you really need it?

There's a huge gap between "Everything sounds the same" and trying to
focus on things can actually sound different. For example not one of the
audio naysayers on this forum has ever claimed that all loudspeakers
sound the same but many of us have claimed that all *PROPERLY
FUNCTIONING* USB cables sound the same. But then again as long as you
continue to drink the magic audio kool-aid not only will all USB cables
sound different, they will sound VASTLY different.

darrenyeats wrote:
> Touche.

Shame on you Darren or maybe shame on me since I always thought you were
one of the good guys.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Zombie]

...when driven within their limitations. Proven in a blind test in the
70s.


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[JackOfAll]

andy_c wrote:
> One of my favorite posts over there is '_this_one_by_Cookie_Marenco_'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/sound-better-uncompressed-downloaded-files-6158/#post70764),
> in which she claims that sound quality of music files degrades when sent
> by email, and that different file formats have different susceptibility
> to this "problem". :D

Flippin' heck! What is wrong with these people? ;)


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[ralphpnj]

JackOfAll wrote:
> Flippin' heck! What is wrong with these people? ;)

There's nothing wrong with them. All they are doing is working one of
the necessary steps of FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) since once one
establishes FUD then one can sell something that removes the FUD. So
while I don't know what it is that Cookie is selling, I'm pretty sure
that Cookie is in the business of selling because the quote: "We tested
the customer experience by emailing the audio." contains the word
"customer".

So the questions you should be asking when you encounter one of these
crazy claims are 1) what are they selling and 2) is my wallet safely
locked away.

Sure for most of us audio is a hobby but for lots of other people,
especially people making crazy claims, audio is a BUSINESS.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[JackOfAll]

ralphpnj wrote:
>
> Sure for most of us audio is a hobby but for lots of other people,
> especially people making crazy claims, audio is a BUSINESS.

I see that. I can't help but feel sorry for the people (and their
wallets) who "buy" into this crap!


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[induna]

andy_c wrote:
> One of my favorite posts over there is '_this_one_by_Cookie_Marenco_'
> (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/sound-better-uncompressed-downloaded-files-6158/#post70764),
> in which she claims that sound quality of music files degrades when sent
> by email, and that different file formats have different susceptibility
> to this "problem". :D

Wow, not only does Cookie's post have a very high fruitloopery factor,
it is also written very poorly. Here are some other quotes from the post
I found particularly amusing:

"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of
your CD, you might as well give up your career as a tester."

"You'll need to figure out a way to listen to your audio from the same
source through the same flow of electronics. Determine what your source
medium is going to be and deliver your files to be compared to one
source. Of course, this is going to be one digital generation away, but
all things considered your files will undergo the same digital
generation."

And without doubt the best of the best: "Those of us in mastering and
recording are dealing with issues of loss of bits during storage and
archiving daily. "

I guess the fact that at this point in history the entire world economy
absolutely depends of the ability store, transport, and copy massive
amounts of digital data without a single undetected and corrected error
(or 'loss of bits') every day has completely eluded Cookie. Well, she
did work for Windham Hill.


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[andy_c]

Pretty crazy stuff!

The Windham hill CDs sound great to me, but I don't like most of the
artists they had. I may get razzed for this, but I will admit to liking
Michael Hedges.

BTW, the Fruitlooper General has determined that reading audiophool
forums can be hazardous to your sanity. :D


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[darrenyeats]

ralphpnj wrote:
>
> Shame on you Darren or maybe shame on me since I always thought you were
> one of the good guys.
Don't worry Ralph I do agree with 90% of your views - I hope you'll
accept me as a 90% good guy!



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[ralphpnj]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Don't worry Ralph I do agree with 90% of your views - I hope you'll
> accept me as a 90% good guy!

That's good to hear. Isn't funny how stating scientific fact is now
considered a "view", as in "it is my view that water at standard
atmospheric pressure boils at 100 degrees Celsius" rather than "water at
standard atmospheric pressure boils at 100 degrees Celsius". In other
words it is not my view that all PROPERLY FUNCTIONING USB cables sound
the same but rather it is a scientific FACT.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Gandhi]

I have also noticed that if one states an "opinion", which might concern
something scientifically undisputable, it's not worth anything without a
reference (a link). Any opinion however, which has a link pointing to
whatever crazy source one might dig up, is considered valid.

http://kinderaerzte.tocco.ch/svupp/Kursagenda?_escaped_fragment_=detail%26key%3D252#!detail&key=252

;-)



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[ReValveiT]

This little beauty has to be my favourite:

http://www.bluehorizonideas.com/cgi-bin/products.pl?id=26

Yep, that's a cable burn-in device. You are reading correctly and you
haven't just woken up in some loony alternate reality. Apparently, it
'burns in your cables far better than music can!' (!?!)

Yours for £650 UK pounds, or around $800ish USD. Bargain! I mean, how
could anyone ever get along without one?!

The one about files loosing quality when sent over email? Class. I
honestly think I've heard it all now.


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[ralphpnj]

ReValveiT wrote:
> This little beauty has to be my favourite:
>
> http://www.bluehorizonideas.com/cgi-bin/products.pl?id=26
>
> Yep, that's a cable burn-in device. You are reading correctly and you
> haven't just woken up in some loony alternate reality. Apparently, it
> 'burns in your cables far better than music can!' (!?!)
>
> Yours for £650 UK pounds, or around $800ish USD. Bargain! I mean, how
> could anyone ever get along without one?!
>
> The one about files loosing quality when sent over email? Class. I
> honestly think I've heard it all now.

Does it work on USB cables?

Love that little Hi-Fi+ quote, that tells you everything you need know
about how great their advertiser's product is.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[SlimChances]

15943


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: emhCsOM.jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15943|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+


Logitech Media Server Version: 7.8.1 - 1398786621 @ Sun May 4 03:04:31
UTC 2014
Operating system: Debian - EN - utf8 Platform Architecture:
x86_64-linux
Perl Version: 5.18.2 - x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi
Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
One SB Touch connected by ethernet - Denon AVR -1912 Receiver,
Paradigm 4.1 speakers
One SB Boom wireless
One SB Radio wireless
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[ralphpnj]

Today's entry:

http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/power-cables-footer/55-venom-series/402-venom-digital?ModPagespeed=noscript#!venom_digital_body2

The main page has some really good technical double talk on it along
with some nifty little graphs. It all sounds so scientific and
reasonable even though most of is complete nonsense. No wonder why so
many people without a decent understanding of the science and
engineering can be fooled. I always wonder about power related tweaks
such as power (mains) cables and the various power supply
treatments/re-generators since most audiophile components have well
designed and built power supplies. Power supplies that should be able to
handle "dirty" AC power and provide clean DC power at whatever voltage
is required since that is the basic function of a power supply aka
transformer.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[get.amped]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Today's entry:
>
> http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/power-cables-footer/55-venom-series/402-venom-digital?ModPagespeed=noscript#!venom_digital_body2
>
> The main page has some really good technical double talk on it along
> with some nifty little graphs. It all sounds so scientific and
> reasonable even though most of is complete nonsense. No wonder why so
> many people without a decent understanding of the science and
> engineering can be fooled. I always wonder about power related tweaks
> such as power (mains) cables and the various power supply
> treatments/re-generators since most audiophile components have well
> designed and built power supplies. Power supplies that should be able to
> handle "dirty" AC power and provide clean DC power at whatever voltage
> is required since that is the basic function of a power supply aka
> transformer.

Alas, they are not available in the USA.

There is some basis for power conditioning. I have particularly crappy
power from National Grid with ridiculous day to day voltage fluctuations
and mostly old, crappy wiring. Last year I put in upgraded service, new
breaker boxes with some additional capacity, and had the electrician run
some new 20A circuits for my IT equipment room, living room and kitchen.
Before I had the new circuit in the kitchen I couldn't use the microwave
and have the overhead fluorescent lights on without popping the breaker.
Primarily to protect against surges and brownouts, I use a variety of
Furman pro audio line conditioners for home theater, stereo and my
guitar and bass amps. Servers and other network devices are all on UPS
units. I hope they do what they're supposed to :rolleyes:

But I never understood how a passive 3' power cable was supposed to make
magic happen between the wall and the device plugged into it. Unless the
circuit is custom wired from the breaker box with magic electrical cable
(not sure what the code is on that), with a magic outlet, then you're
lucky if you have 12-3 romex in the wall. If you're not lucky (that
would be most circuits in my old house) you find 14-3 romex or 12-2 bx
armored cable. Hopefully you don't find aluminum! And that long length
of copper cable is far from magic. It's received no cryogenic treatment
and definitely doesn't have dual coincident concentric conductors
(whatever the hell that means). So somehow the electrons are all forced
to behave themselves and form perfect sine waves when they hit the magic
piece of cable?



Win7Pro(x64)[3.3Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD system, 15TB storage], LMS
7.7.3 -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic ->
NAD C160 -> 2 x NAD C272 -> Quad 22L2
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[darrenyeats]

get.amped wrote:
>
> There is some basis for power conditioning.

I agree. The issue is somewhat dependent on your supply and your
components, so I would expect experiences to differ.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[ralphpnj]

darrenyeats wrote:
> I agree. The issue is somewhat dependent on your supply and your
> components, so I would expect experiences to differ.
>
> More of my present thinking here:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101270-Need-a-little-help-from-the-experts&p=775845&viewfull=1#post775845

Darren,

I read the post referenced in the above quote and would like to ask you
a few questions:

1) Was the perceived improvement in sound quality a vast improvement
(the old audiophile "night and day" difference) or was it more of subtle
difference?

2) Exactly how did you install the filters?



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[darrenyeats]

Hi Ralph,
1. The cumulative effect of all the steps I described is significant,
and I would be surprised if I couldn't hear it blind (even though I've
to proved myself to have been fooled on past occasions, so I am wary). I
have been distinctly unsatisfied with the sound on two occasions since
then, and both occasions later discovered I'd left my phone charging
(unfiltered) in another room. I've talked to the wife about a blind test
but no dice so far ...!

2. The items using SMPSs (everything in my study, and the Touch in the
music room) are plugged into the filtered Tacima block, and this itself
is plugged into the Marmitek filter which is plugged into a wall socket.
This is the opposite arrangement to usual. Usually the stereo components
are plugged into filters to protect them from switching noise on the
mains ring, but in my case I'm protecting the mains ring from the
sources of switching noise. It's an upstairs ring and nothing else is
plugged into it.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[ralphpnj]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Hi Ralph,
> 1. The cumulative effect of all the steps I described is significant,
> and I would be surprised if I couldn't hear it blind (even though I've
> to proved myself to have been fooled on past occasions, so I am wary). I
> have been distinctly unsatisfied with the sound on two occasions since
> then, and both occasions I later discovered I'd left my phone charging
> (unfiltered) in another room. I've talked to the wife about a blind test
> but no dice so far ...!
>
> 2. The items using SMPSs (7 or 8 devices in my study, and the Touch in
> the music room) are plugged into a filtered Tacima block, and this
> itself is plugged into a Marmitek filter which is plugged into a wall
> socket. This is the opposite arrangement to usual. Usually the stereo
> components are plugged into filters to protect them from switching noise
> on the mains ring, but in my case I'm protecting the mains ring from the
> sources of switching noise. It's an upstairs ring and nothing else is
> plugged into it, other things like the heating system have their own
> circuit from the CU.
>
> Head on over to pro sites like Gearslutz or SOS and you'll see this
> stuff isn't magic(ke) really.

Thanks Darren.

I respect your version of the improvements since you make these
statements along with a healthy dose of skepticism which is not how this
would be presented in the audiophile press. Plus you are trying to
address a very specific and real problem, namely noise inducted by
switching mode power supplies. Well done!



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[darrenyeats]

Yes Ralph, it's fair to describe these as my perceptions and experience
and not as a statement of fact to be taken as gospel. Also, when it
comes to power-related stuff, I know there are many different opinions
and experiences. The good thing is, filters and lampless/switchless
extensions are pretty cheap, much cheaper than one fancy power supply or
audiophile interconnect! So trying stuff out for yourself shouldn't be
too painful ... just be aware of your ring layout so it all makes sense.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[ralphpnj]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Yes Ralph, it's fair to describe these as my perceptions and experience
> and not as a statement of fact to be taken as gospel. Also, when it
> comes to power-related stuff, I know there are many different opinions,
> experiences - and even technical views. The good thing is, filters and
> lampless/switchless extensions are pretty cheap, much cheaper than one
> fancy power supply or audiophile interconnect! So trying stuff out for
> yourself shouldn't be too wasteful ... just first be aware of your ring
> layout so that whatever you do makes sense.
>
> It's probably quite equipment-dependent too.

Just to clarify: by "ring layout" you mean circuit. ie. the outlets and
switches that are grouped together on one circuit which runs back to the
fuse or circuit breaker back at the main electrical panel.

And what the heck is does "lampless" mean?



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[darrenyeats]

ralphpnj wrote:
> Just to clarify: by "ring layout" you mean circuit. ie. the outlets and
> switches that are grouped together on one circuit which runs back to the
> fuse or circuit breaker back at the main electrical panel.
>
Yeah, for example it's not worth filtering 3 three items if the ring is
shared through the whole house where a further 23 items are plugged in
etc.

ralphpnj wrote:
>
> And what the heck is does "lampless" mean?
My old extensions had indicator lights and switches, they were unbranded
cheapy things from a bargain bucket and I was happy to replace them for
plain £5 extensions.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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[Mnyb]

darrenyeats wrote:
> Yes Ralph, it's fair to describe these as my perceptions and experience
> and not as a statement of fact to be taken as gospel. Also, when it
> comes to power-related stuff, I know there are many different opinions,
> experiences - and even technical views. The good thing is, filters and
> lampless/switchless extensions are pretty cheap, much cheaper than one
> fancy power supply or audiophile interconnect! So trying stuff out for
> yourself shouldn't be too wasteful ... just first be aware of your ring
> layout so that whatever you do makes sense.
>
> It's probably quite equipment-dependent too.

Yep the fancy "audiophile grade" filters cost a lot , normal fillters
don't and they do exists usually for installation inside compenents.

Equipment dependent yes :) pssr "power supply rejection ratio" vary
wildly . You would not be surprised to find that woo woo audiophile
components with exotic design actually does not excell here ,rather the
opposite .

Seems like some tube designs and other no feedback designs actually
demands beefier power supplies in the first place and are more likely to
be sensitive to mains noise too ?

So by woo woo design you make components having problems that where
solved decades ago ?

IMHO it's a myth that it is always smps power supplies that dirties the
network , linear supplies can do this too and some smps supplies are
decently filtered and do not pose a problem .
A bad power supply can polite the mains .

( OT why does not modern amps use atleast LC filter most only have
capacitance after the rectifier bridge , I work with lVSD drives they
all have a main inductance besides it capacitor bank , economy decides
if it's placed on the AC or DC side )

An example of a bad supply is probably the 230Vac supply that was
delivered with slimdevices branded SB3 .
The logitech branded classic has the Touch supply that atleast confirms
to some norms about noise etc , and probably is less likely to disturb
sensitive components.

One of the cheaper upgrades I had was simply having ground at the hifi
outlets , this will probably surprise someone front a Great Britain as
they always have line neutral and ground present in all outlets ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[jimbobvfr400]

Can we not reclaim the phrase Audiophile please. I consider myself to be
one in so much as I care about my music sounding good, in this age of
seeming low fidelity and most folks being happy with a standalone
airplay or Bluetooth speaker I would say I'm definitely an Audiophile in
comparison. Most people I know seem to think bloody Beats headphones to
be high end HiFi which is nonsense IMO.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk




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[garym]

jimbobvfr400 wrote:
> Can we not reclaim the phrase Audiophile please. I consider myself to be
> one in so much as I care about my music sounding good, in this age of
> seeming low fidelity and most folks being happy with a standalone
> airplay or Bluetooth speaker I would say I'm definitely an Audiophile in
> comparison. Most people I know seem to think bloody Beats headphones to
> be high end HiFi which is nonsense IMO.
>
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I understand your thoughts here, but I'm afraid the term audiophile has
been irreparably damaged. And now that many (most) of the internet sites
that use this term contain voodoo, quackery, or outright fraud, the
negative connotation of the term is likely to live on....



*Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Streaming - Spotify
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[get.amped]

Perhaps Audio Enthusiast is more appropriate. My girlfriend thinks I'm
picky. I say I'm discerning. Many of my friends and family think I'm a
bit obsessive. I know it's more than a bit...



Win7Pro(x64)[3.3Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD system, 15TB storage], LMS
7.7.3 -> Logitech Squeezebox Classic V.3 -> Cambridge Audio DacMagic ->
NAD C160 -> 2 x NAD C272 -> Quad 22L2
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[jimbobvfr400]

OK I'm happy to be an Audio Enthusiast, I like that

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk




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[Gandhi]

Audio Connoisseur?

"The sound of the Ueber-Thicke mains cables has a distinct hint of black
currant and toffee, with just a smidge of burnt rubber. Exactly the
right amount to accompany gentle muzak after a well-composed meal of
ducklings with stuffed nightingale tongues. (Cash only.)"



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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