[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why foo (aven audiophile foo) matters

[Julf]

'Pseudoscience and conspiracy theory are not victimless crimes against
science'
(http://theconversation.com/pseudoscience-and-conspiracy-theory-are-not-victimless-crimes-against-science-42630).



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Mnyb]

I can not agree more ,I’m actually supporting sceptical movements I
think this is in the more important than money for the lates natural
disaster or war or whatnot . Most of humanities problems do arise from
ignorance or medieval world-views in general .
The antivaxer nutcases do threat our herd immunity , this hurts the
weakest among us that for some reason cant take the vaccine etc .

Placebo meds replacing real meds its especially cynical to wring money
out of cancer victims . or homeapathy ?!?

In it's least dangerous forms foo just takes our money at these healt
stores that seems to be everywhere selling supplements for the most well
nourished human population that ever lived ?



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[Gandhi]

While fully agreeing, I haven't so far seen or heard of an audiophile
spending all of his monthly income on Nordost cables and letting his
children starve. ;-)

To be serious, I have many times tried to explain the severe logical
problems inherent in some popular yet grotesque conspiracy theories, but
utterly failed. And these are highly intelligent people with higher
educations. I agree with the article, but I also think that mistrusting
science can be a kind of belief system in itself. And changing a belief
is difficult at best. Arguments fall short where there's no will to even
consider another view. How could you with rational arguments change
views that aren't based on rationality, but on belief alone? It seems
education and science doesn't solve it all. I think this way of thinking
often stems from a social inheritance.



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[Julf]

I think this way of thinking often stems from a social inheritance.

Or intellectual laziness. But it is very much like the confirmation bias
effect seen in politics and religion - the more wrong you are, the
stronger your belief in it. And the complementary "I read what I
believe" effect...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Gandhi]

I recently heard an interesting theory on a scientific radio show. The
core of intelligence was said to be pattern recognition. The more
intelligent, the more you'd be able to find patterns. Even where there
are none.

I think it's a plausible explanation for conspiracy theorists.

That would also explain why my intelligent friends believe in all sorts
of strange fruit. And why I don't. :-)



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[Mnyb]

Post by Gandhi
I recently heard an interesting theory on a scientific radio show. The
core of intelligence was said to be pattern recognition. The more
intelligent, the more you'd be able to find patterns. Even where there
are none.
I think it's a plausible explanation for conspiracy theorists.
That would also explain why my intelligent friends believe in all sorts
of strange fruit. And why I don't. :-)

Add some magic thinking to that coincidence and causations gets confused
. Hence throwing virgins into volcanoes to please the weather goods kind
of reasoning appears .

The childs may not starve due to nordost cables but college funds and
family vacations and in general the quality of life for the rest of the
(still remaining ) familly will suffer due to funds wasted on emperors
new clothes (aka nothing ) .

Read this blog on stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/content/death-audiophile

It actually has the opposite effect to what the authors intended it
basically describes a wasted life . It's totally horrifying :(



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Gandhi]

And the complementary "I read what I believe" effect...

And the "I never socialize with others outside my peer group" also does
not help.

The childs may not starve due to nordost cables but college funds and
family vacations and in general the quality of life for the rest of the
(still remaining ) familly will suffer due to funds wasted on emperors
new clothes (aka nothing ).

Agreed, but I have cunningly developed a solution to that problem, see
below.

Read this blog on stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/content/death-audiophile
It actually has the opposite effect to what the authors intended it
basically describes a wasted life . It's totally horrifying :(

That's incredibly sad! Hideous! I don't know what to say.

As for the opposite effect of the blog, there really is an unneccessary
amount of name-dropping. Bad PR = good PR. The cynic in me awakes a
little... But I sincerely hope it's just a non-existent pattern.

Anyway, to bury me, one first have to untangle me from the chains of
coathangers I have run around the place, as Nordost killers. :-)



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
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[Mnyb]

Post by Gandhi
That's incredibly sad! Hideous! I don't know what to say.

Yes if thats is one of the endstates of this "harmless" obsession to
move around mpingo discs 1/16 of an inch and then you die .

This can be a very time consuming a debilitating obsessions for many , I
was like that when I was young it was what I wanted to talk about etc .

A thing to think about , conect the dots and see where they might lead
you in the future, is an end state similar the one described in that
blog a possibility ? I was thinking about it a couple of years ago . I
could just see more money down the rabbit hole and more OCD like
obsessions on placebo . That's was not a happy thought .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Gandhi]

Post by Mnyb
Yes if thats is one of the endstates of this "harmless" obsession to
move around mpingo discs 1/16 of an inch and then you die .
This can be a very time consuming a debilitating obsessions for many , I
was like that when I was young it was what I wanted to talk about etc .
A thing to think about , conect the dots and see where they might lead
you in the future, is an end state similar the one described in that
blog a possibility ? I was thinking about it a couple of years ago . I
could just see more money down the rabbit hole and more OCD like
obsessions on placebo . That's was not a happy thought .

All very good points. And scary. Once in a while, one should probably
look at one's own life from a helicopter perspective and extrapolate a
bit. Or a lot. I think I just might do that myself.

But when is a hobby good for you and when does it go over the edge? Is
furnishing your livingroom partly according to scientifically calculated
speakerpositions bad or does it just help you to maximise the joy of the
music? Is accurate tagging of music files an obsession or does it just
help you to find the music? I suppose many of us here are guilty of
both. Obviously this horrible case shows the absolute bottom where noone
actually wants to end up, but very few would actually let it slide so
far. When is enough enough?



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mnyb]

And forums can play both positive and negative parts , people are both
social and competitive how do you become the best audiophile :) ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[arnyk]

Post by Mnyb
And forums can play both positive and negative parts , people are both
social and competitive how do you become the best audiophile :) ?

There seem to be two extremes.

A lot of people seem to try to make themselves out to be a really good
audiophile by telling impressive sounding anecdotes that glorify their
purchasing power and their allegedly discerning tastes.

Then you have crazy guys like Archimago who seem to be very fact-based
in their approach, and talk about the results of relevant, repeatable
experiments. ;-)

This is a marketplace of ideas, and people get to choose...


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[Archimago]

Post by arnyk
There seem to be two extremes.
A lot of people seem to try to make themselves out to be a really good
audiophile by telling impressive sounding anecdotes that glorify their
purchasing power and their allegedly discerning tastes.
Then you have crazy guys like Archimago who seem to be very fact-based
in their approach, and talk about the results of relevant, repeatable
experiments. ;-)
This is a marketplace of ideas, and people get to choose...

Yup, those two extremes indeed...

However I think there is a good sized group of folks in the middle
ground who wouldn't dare show their face in a sub-forum like this one.
I've met a few and they just call themselves "music lovers" or something
like that :rolleyes:.

I'm pretty sure that's not even a real hobby! :D



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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[Fizbin]

I think I only understood two posts in this entire thread.


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[Mnyb]

Another factor is the intellctual corruption .

If you believe in Foo in one area the leap to beleive in even more Foo
is easier to take .

Next alien abductions .

Wait audiophile alien abductions , where instead of the typical "body
orifice prope" you must endure abx test with high global feedback
amplifiers etc ... ;)



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[arnyk]

Post by Mnyb
Another factor is the intellctual corruption .
If you believe in Foo in one area the leap to beleive in even more Foo
is easier to take .
Next alien abductions .
Wait audiophile alien abductions , where instead of the typical "body
orifice prope" you must endure abx test with high global feedback
amplifiers etc ... ;)

This is an excellent point.

In every sales relationship, one of the effective salesman's goals is
customer control. IOW the salesman can induce the customer to buy what
the salesman wants him to buy, and to not buy what the salesman does not
want him to buy.

If the saleman's influence in this area is limited to rational choices,
obviously the salesman does not have as effective control over the
customer as he does when the salesman induces the customer to make
irrational choices.


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[ralphpnj]

On the other hand unquestioning faith in science and technology can lead
to the belief that ALL problems can be solved with more technology.

This is clearly evident in the climate change debate.

On one side there are the flat out climate change deniers. However on
the other side there are those that believe that while climate change is
real there is very little to worry about since some techno God (the
current favorite techno God is Elon Musk of Tesla Motors, who has
replaced the late Steve Jobs as the top techno God) is going to come
along and fix everything. All too often those worshiping these techno
Gods have little real understanding of the sciences involved.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Wombat]

Post by Gandhi
But when is a hobby good for you and when does it go over the edge? Is
furnishing your livingroom partly according to scientifically calculated
speakerpositions bad or does it just help you to maximise the joy of the
music? Is accurate tagging of music files an obsession or does it just
help you to find the music? I suppose many of us here are guilty of
both. Obviously this horrible case shows the absolute bottom where noone
actually wants to end up, but very few would actually let it slide so
far. When is enough enough?

Tagging everything to its climax does mot hurt especialy when you do it
while listening to good music without having to wurry how to improve its
sound all day long. At least better tagging and coverart can be seen. It
gets sick when fiddling with tuning things back and forth and back and
forth until your brain gets muddy.



Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA
monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers
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[Gandhi]

Post by Wombat
Tagging everything to its climax does mot hurt especialy when you do it
while listening to good music without having to wurry how to improve its
sound all day long. At least better tagging and coverart can be seen. It
gets sick when fiddling with tuning things back and forth and back and
forth until your brain gets muddy.

I suppose nothing is a problem until it's a problem. If your wife
sometimes mutters a little about "this g*ddam tagging", there is no real
problem. Yet. But if she one day yells "I'm leaving you for a deaf
person, you music tagging maniac!", there probably is one.



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Gandhi]

Post by Mnyb
Add some magic thinking to that coincidence and causations gets
confused.

Wikipedia has a really interesting page on this subjekt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

And here's an experiment that shows that even pigeons can think
magically
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstitious_pigeon#Superstition_in_the_pigeon

On the other hand, I also remember a scientific study where humans
scored worse than pigeons in predicting an outcome. There was a machine
with two buttons and a hole, where some food would appear if the correct
button was pressed when a red light came on. Which button that gave the
reward was determined by a random mechanism. As the humans thought they
saw a pattern, "Ooh yess, after two on the left side followed by one on
the right side, the correct one is always the left one!" they acted upon
it and scored worse than the pigeons who just randomly pecked on the
buttons until they got something to eat.

Which is the more successful animal? Coin toss.



Best Regards,
Gandhi

not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|*
ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|*
transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|*
no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all,
including waking the server from s3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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