[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs Airdac or mdac

[mikecbetts]

I've had a transporter since they first came out.
Currently using with an Apple TV 2nd gen with optical out, mainly
streaming Spotify via AirPlay.
Rest of system is vintage Naim, with separate pre and power amps, and
epos speakers. Plus a Linn Sondek LP12.
My question is, since the DAC in the Transporter is a few generations
old, would I notice an improvement if I switched to an Arcam AirDAC or
an Audiolab mdac?
Thanks for your advice,
Mike


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[drmatt]

Evidence on the internet is that the Transporter DAC is actually
extremely high quality with ultra low noise and ultra low distortion. So
would you notice an objective improvement? Likely not. Given that music
is entirely a subjective thing however you may well find a subjective
improvement by trying a different DAC. I don't know how the ones you
mention sound, but I can say that in general they do sound slightly
different from each other, so try them and see what you like.




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[Mnyb]

Spotifys lossy ogg coding has a magnitude greater impact than any of the
DAC's mentioned including the TP .
Also,the Apple TV does it resample ? It can have a negative impact

If noticeable it at all it would be small .

Most bang for buck would be to setup an LMS server and stream lossles
Flac files , then you can explore the limits of these DAC's as for now
the bottleneck is not the DAC .

Normally 320k ogg encoding should be transparent ( 320k Lame MP3 is if I
make the files myself ) but for some reason it's in practice not from
streaming services , the have not done perfect encodings ? It's a
mystery why , but I chalk it up to missing QC in general , the stuff
gets uploaded by the labels themselfs etc .



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Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Fizbin]

A newer DAC might have more bells and whistles, but it doesn't mean it
will sound better.

IMO, I think you would need at least a Benchmark DAC2 to surpass the
Transporter.


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[Mnyb]

Yes the transporter is foremost a squeezebox. A more typical DAC have
more inputs and features , so that can reason for a change . And the
squeezebox part can be a picore player with digital out to the new DAC
.

Seems like op does not use the transporter as squeezebox much ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[garym]

Post by Mnyb
Seems like op does not use the transporter as squeezebox much ?

If I understand the OP's description of how he is using the Transporter,
it is not clear to me that he's even using the DAC in the Transporter.
If it is optical out of transporter to the appleTV, isn't he using the
AppleTV's DAC?



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[mikecbetts]

Post by garym
If I understand the OP's description of how he is using the Transporter,
it is not clear to me that he's even using the DAC in the Transporter.
If it is optical out of transporter to the appleTV, isn't he using the
AppleTV's DAC?

Actually the other way round. Stream via AirPlay to Apple TV - and then
from Apple optical out into the Transporter - and ultimately into a Naim
preamp.


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[garym]

Post by mikecbetts
Actually the other way round. Stream via AirPlay to Apple TV - and then
from Apple optical out into the Transporter - and ultimately into a Naim
preamp.

Got it. But confused. Why the appke tv and airplay in the chain. Why not
stream Spotify directly to transporter.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[mikecbetts]

Got it. But confused. Why the apple tv and airplay in the chain. Why not
stream Spotify directly to transporter. (just install the spotify app
on mysqueezebox.com, the spotify plugin in LMS, and the "spotify
protocal handler" plugin on LMS.
EDIT: Seems like the apple TV chain is converting the spotify 320kbs OGG
files to something else and changing to 48 from 44.1. May not matter
much, but can't be good and has way more potential to impact sound than
any capable DAC.

OK - I have the Spotify app installed on mysqueezebox.com, and I have
LMS installed (on Apple Macbook Pro). But I can't see how/where to
install the Spotify plug in, or the Spotify protocol handler....

Is that covered in the wiki?


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[Man in a van]

Post by mikecbetts
OK - I have the Spotify app installed on mysqueezebox.com, and I have
LMS installed (on Apple Macbook Pro). But I can't see how/where to
install the Spotify plug in, or the Spotify protocol handler....
Is that covered in the wiki?

go to Settings>plugin tab

the handler is in the third party list

21484


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[garym]

And in LMS - Settings - plugins tab, be sure to tick the show third
party plugins box. Also you have to enter your Spotify credentials in
both the mysb.com app and in the Spotify plugin settings in LMS.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[mikecbetts]

Post by garym
And in LMS - Settings - plugins tab, be sure to tick the show third
party plugins box. Also you have to enter your Spotify credentials in
both the mysb.com app and in the Spotify protocol handler plugin
settings in LMS.

Thanks guys - getting there....just one (hopefully last) problem - LMS
can't find my Transporter - even though I have it connected to the
Squeezebox controller on my iPhone without any problems.


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[mikecbetts]

Post by mikecbetts
Thanks guys - getting there....just one (hopefully last) problem - LMS
can't find my Transporter - even though I have it connected to the
Squeezebox controller on my iPhone without any problems.

And running self-test of the Triode plug-in, I get the following error:


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[mikecbetts]

OK. More progress. Now it looks like Triode plug-in is working OK. Apart
from the issue with connecting to a player.
How do I get LMS to find my player?
Thanks! 21492[/ATTACH]


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[kidstypike]

On your transporter scroll to "My Music".

Or, press and hold the << button, scroll to select your LMS server.



kidstypike

LMS on Raspberry Pi 3/max2play/HiFiBerry DAC+ > AVI DM5

1 x SB3 - 1 x Boom - 1 x (Squeezebox) Radio - 2 x Touch - 2 x Raspberry
Pi/piCorePlayer/HiFiBerry
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[Man in a van]

Post by mikecbetts
OK. More progress. Now it looks like Triode plug-in is working OK. Apart
from the issue with connecting to a player.
How do I get LMS to find my player?
Thanks!21493

If you are using Triode's plugin, you really don't need to bother with
the Spotify Protocol Handler, The two will work in conjuction but I have
used only the logitech SPL for some considerable time.

Ronnie

maybe restart the router to reconnect the transporter


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[garym]

Post by Man in a van
If you are using Triode's plugin, you really don't need to bother with
the Spotify Protocol Handler, The two will work in conjuction but I have
used only the logitech SPL for some considerable time.
Ronnie
maybe restart the router to reconnect the transporter

don't use the triode spotify plugin. Use instead the spotify potocol
handler.



*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio
(all ethernet)
*Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
*Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes;
Streaming: Spotify
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[mikecbetts]

Post by Mnyb
Yes the transporter is foremost a squeezebox. A more typical DAC have
more inputs and features , so that can reason for a change . And the
squeezebox part can be a picore player with digital out to the new DAC
.
Seems like op does not use the transporter as squeezebox much ?

Correct - these days I just use Spotify, CDs or LPs.
Spotify premium with extreme quality - still not brilliant, but sound
through my set-up is actually not bad.
That's why I wondered if a new DAC would improve things still further...


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[cliveb]

Post by mikecbetts
Correct - these days I just use Spotify, CDs or LPs.
Spotify premium with extreme quality - still not brilliant, but sound
through my set-up is actually not bad.
That's why I wondered if a new DAC would improve things still further...

The TP is a desirable niche product that's in demand by its target
customer base. So if you don't use yours as a Squeezebox, and if it's in
great condition, the obvious thing to do is to sell it and replace it
with a DAC that should cost you less than you get for the TP.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
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[drmatt]

Regardless of the limitations of the messy digital treatment on display
here I would say DACs sound different. If there's a reason you don't
like the sound from the Transporter as a DAC then by all means find
something else, but I would say that even now the TP is still pretty
state of the art where distortion is concerned and your digital source
is most definitely going to limit the technical quality of the sound
being produced no matter what DAC you use. Highly revealing DACs are
often not nice when fed mangled low bitrate bits.




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[mikecbetts]

Post by drmatt
Regardless of the limitations of the messy digital treatment on display
here I would say DACs still sound a little different. If there's a
reason you don't like the sound from the Transporter as a DAC then by
all means find something else, but I would say that even now the TP is
still pretty state of the art where distortion is concerned and your
digital source is most definitely going to limit the technical quality
of the sound being produced no matter what DAC you use. Highly revealing
DACs are often not nice when fed mangled low bitrate bits.
Edit: assuming your TP is fully working and doesn't have failing PSUs or
whatever.

Unless I'm mistaken (I hope I am!) Spotify doesn't stream directly to a
Transporter.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104436-Announce-We-re-updating-the-official-Spotify-app
Hence my workaround with an Apple TV. If there is a way to get it
working directly, that would be awesome :-)
Currently, whenever I try to stream, I get a 'file type not supported
message'.


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