Discussion:
GUEST REVIEW: The "Best-Coaxial-Digital" Cable!
Archimago
2013-04-19 20:48:46 UTC
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Hello dear audiophiles, my "friend" Keaton decreed that he contribute to
my blog with a recent coaxial SPDIF cable review.

As it is Friday afternoon, I wish every one a good (hopefully relaxing)
weekend!

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/guest-review-measurements-dr-franks.html

Enjoy :-)


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Julf
2013-04-19 20:59:14 UTC
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Post by Archimago
As it is Friday afternoon, I wish every one a good (hopefully relaxing)
weekend!
Very enjoyable. I just have to point out on error - there is no way
anyone could get a laboratory space in Akihabara
these days.

Anyway, I warmly recommend a subscription of 'The Chap Magazine'
(http://thechapmagazine.co.uk/).


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Archimago
2013-04-19 23:42:53 UTC
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Post by Julf
Very enjoyable. I just have to point out on error - there is no way
anyone could get a laboratory space in Akihabara
these days.
Anyway, I warmly recommend a subscription of 'The Chap Magazine'
(http://thechapmagazine.co.uk/).
I hear he inherited it :-)

Will ask Keaton to clarify next time he visits for sushi.


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Mnyb
2013-04-20 04:55:55 UTC
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Please can some AA ( anynomous audiophiles ) member donate a silly
expensive digital coax cable to Archimago :)
Or an super expensive USB .

When I was riddled by this disorder , I never really subscribed to super
expensive digital cables , so the ones I had was not that spectacular
just expensive , most of my silly priced analog cables ( and some
digital ones ) are recycled .


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Archimago
2013-04-20 06:25:45 UTC
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Post by Mnyb
Please can some AA ( anynomous audiophiles ) member donate a silly
expensive digital coax cable to Archimago :)
Or an super expensive USB .
When I was riddled by this disorder , I never really subscribed to super
expensive digital cables , so the ones I had was not that spectacular
just expensive , most of my silly priced analog cables ( and some
digital ones ) are recycled .
:-)

It's going to be busy for me the next week but hopefully I'll finish off
the "digital cable" series with some TosLink selections in a couple of
weeks.

I think the measurements are clearly pointing to an important but
"inconvenient" yet absolutely logical conclusion when it comes to
transporting bits...


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Mnyb
2013-04-20 14:08:09 UTC
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Post by Archimago
:-)
It's going to be busy for me the next week but hopefully I'll finish off
the "digital cable" series with some TosLink selections in a couple of
weeks.
I think the measurements are clearly pointing to an important but
"inconvenient" (for some) yet absolutely logical conclusion when it
comes to transporting bits...
Yes , but the die yards can just dimmis it by saying that a mess of low
price cable is no better than one low price cable .

Hence , me thinking it would be a gem to have something cherished and
well praised in the so called " audio press" .

In fact I would not be surprised if one could find something that was
actually worse , I've seen some unorthodox approaches over the years
deviating from impedance specs etc .
And sometimes it seems that the "manufacturer" ( in reality brand , it's
often made in china or surplus , normal cable in nice jacket , maybe
it's not originally audio cable which makes it unusual ) simply re uses
his purchase of cable to more areas now sudenly the much coveted analog
cable makes an excellent digital,due to the hand beaten silver made by
monks in himalaya :)

Or alloys ? Silly but true .

I actually owned defect cables , Van Den Hull the Second which is made
from carbon fibre which is a conductor but worse than copper , but it
was supposed to sound much better than metal , it probaly acted exactly
the same as a copper cable with 50ohm in series .
And also alpha core , who makes flat solid single core speaker cable
with very low inductance , but they made signal cables with same
geometry which is plain silly ? different application altogether ( of
course no screen on the signal cables ).
I actually wonder if not their raw product has some other application
where the same stuff can be bought at 1/100 of the price.


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Archimago
2013-04-20 15:15:44 UTC
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Post by Mnyb
Yes , but the die yards can just dimmis it by saying that a mess of low
price cable is no better than one low price cable .
Hence , me thinking it would be a gem to have something cherished and
well praised in the so called " audio press" .
In fact I would not be surprised if one could find something that was
actually worse , I've seen some unorthodox approaches over the years
deviating from impedance specs etc .
And sometimes it seems that the "manufacturer" ( in reality brand , it's
often made in china or surplus , normal cable in nice jacket , maybe
it's not originally audio cable which makes it unusual ) simply re uses
his purchase of cable to more areas now sudenly the much coveted analog
cable makes an excellent digital,due to the hand beaten silver made by
monks in himalaya :)
Or alloys ? Silly but true .
I actually owned defect cables , Van Den Hull the Second which is made
from carbon fibre which is a conductor but worse than copper , but it
was supposed to sound much better than metal , it probaly acted exactly
the same as a copper cable with 50ohm in series .
And also alpha core , who makes flat solid single core speaker cable
with very low inductance , but they made signal cables with same
geometry which is plain silly ? different application altogether ( of
course no screen on the signal cables ).
I actually wonder if not their raw product has some other application
where the same stuff can be bought at 1/100 of the price.
When I get around to it to check out the dealers in town, will ask about
borrowing something "cherished"!

Over the years I have never seen any audiophile magazine publish the
graphs I've shown - ie. exactly identical graphs for various digital
cables - has anyone? Maybe an independent publication like 'The Audio
Critic' may have.

It's of course not in the interest of advertisers / manufacturers but I
assume also the readership hasn't been demanding for it either... I
wonder do most people accept the idea that measurements are worthless,
or that the "sound of music is too complex" to be correlated to
measurements, or maybe most audiophiles just know intuitively the truth
and just don't want to know.

Sorry to hear about your experience with high-priced-defective-by-design
cables. Just terrible. And I assume the reviewers must have just loved
those cables.


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Mnyb
2013-04-20 16:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Archimago
When I get around to it to check out the dealers in town, will ask about
borrowing something "cherished"!
Over the years I have never seen any audiophile magazine publish the
graphs I've shown - ie. exactly identical graphs for various digital
cables - has anyone? Maybe an independent publication like 'The Audio
Critic' may have.
It's of course not in the interest of advertisers / manufacturers but I
assume also the readership hasn't been demanding for it either... I
wonder do most people accept the idea that measurements are worthless,
or that the "sound of music is too complex" to be correlated to
measurements, or maybe most audiophiles just know intuitively the truth
and just don't want to know.
Sorry to hear about your experience with high-priced-defective-by-design
cables. Just terrible. And I assume the reviewers must have just loved
those cables.
Exactly +1 don't fel sorry for me :)

These Magazines are spreading the idea that measurements are worthless
( go figure ) .
There is a kernel of truth in this as always but widely overused by
audiophiles .

In the 70's there was a "spec" war focusing on certain aspect but
neglecting others . This have giving rise to the myth the negative
feedback is bad and that certain details would dissapear ? Of course by
unknown mechanism that no audiophile has to explain because it just is
so ;)

There is sometimes not a very clear correlation to what some
measurements tells us vs audibility . But something's are clear and
proved ,like with modern well designed equipment with very tiny amount
of distortion and noise ,no one can tell them apart .
A fact that Audio critic used to piont out , very good magazine btw .

But in the case of these digital cables you have a situation where there
is *no* difference , if the magazines did these kind of measurement they
would give away mathematical proof that they are lying , and it would be
possible to sue them .
If they claim that a more perky midrange and firmer bottom is the case
on the latest forgettable jazz Muzak girl record .

That don't stop audiophiles , must be the ether or flogiston that
transports these signals directly to,the brain as they electro
acoustically don't happen at all :)


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ralphpnj
2013-04-20 20:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Archimago
Yes Mr. Ralph, indeed the depth of Minoeall-san's words of wisdom
suggest truth incarnate and have made humble many a fellow. The years of
meditation have obviously produced a gentleman of great intellect and
transcendence.
I suggest you also visit and experience the achievements of his cousin
http://www.sakurasystems.com/
Best regards on your journey,
Keaton I G-E III, Esq.
Thank you Keaton for your kind words and the link to Sakura Systems. The
money in my wallet needs to find a new home.
Post by Archimago
Over the years I have never seen any audiophile magazine publish the
graphs I've shown - ie. exactly identical graphs for various digital
cables - has anyone? Maybe an independent publication like 'The Audio
Critic' may have.
It's of course not in the interest of advertisers / manufacturers but I
assume also the readership hasn't been demanding for it either... I
wonder do most people accept the idea that measurements are worthless,
or that the "sound of music is too complex" to be correlated to
measurements, or maybe most audiophiles just know intuitively the truth
and just don't want to know.
Sorry to hear about your experience with high-priced-defective-by-design
cables. Just terrible. And I assume the reviewers must have just loved
those cables.
Exactly +1 don't fel sorry for me :)
These Magazines are spreading the idea that measurements are worthless
( go figure ) .
There is a kernel of truth in this as always but widely overused by
audiophiles.
In the 70's there was a "spec" war focusing on certain aspect but
neglecting others . This have giving rise to the myth the negative
feedback is bad and that certain details would dissapear ? Of course by
unknown mechanism that no audiophile has to explain because it just is
so ;)
There is sometimes not a very clear correlation to what some
measurements tells us vs audibility . But something's are clear and
proved ,like with modern well designed equipment with very tiny amount
of distortion and noise ,no one can tell them apart .
A fact that Audio critic used to piont out , very good magazine btw .
But in the case of these digital cables you have a situation where there
is *no* difference , if the magazines did these kind of measurement they
would give away mathematical proof that they are lying , and it would be
possible to sue them .
If they claim that a more perky midrange and firmer bottom is the case
on the latest forgettable jazz Muzak girl record .
That don't stop audiophiles , must be the ether or flogiston that
transports these signals directly to,the brain as they electro
acoustically don't happen at all :)
I beg to differ. Remember it was the measurement of higher jitter in
non-asynchronous USB that directly lead to the recent asynchronous USB
DAC craze. So it's not that the clowns in the audio press don't use
measurements but rather that they gladly cherry pick among measurements
and use only those measurements that prove most beneficial to their
puppet masters. oops, I mean advertisers. Amazingly in the course of a
single review you will read about how measurements show how "bad" the
jitter is in non-asynchronous USB and also how a $500 USB cable (from
one of the magazine's major advertisers) is way better than a $10 USB
cable, in spite of the fact that tehy measure EXACTLY the same. And
that's why I call them CLOWNS. But I really should be calling them
LIARS. They are, quite simply, disgraceful and never to be believed.


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Mnyb
2013-04-21 00:48:20 UTC
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Yea , but they don't measure cables specifically when doing a cable test
. Or like Archimago done in situ to see their impact :)


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Archimago
2013-04-21 02:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ralphpnj
Thank you Keaton for your kind words and the link to Sakura Systems. The
money in my wallet needs to find a new home.
Of course.

Cheers,
Keaton I G-E III, Esq.


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darrenyeats
2013-04-19 21:02:26 UTC
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He-he!

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD


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ralphpnj
2013-04-20 12:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Archimago
Hello dear audiophiles, my "friend" Keaton decreed that he contribute to
my blog with a recent coaxial SPDIF cable review.
As it is Friday afternoon, I wish every one a good (hopefully relaxing)
weekend!
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/guest-review-measurements-dr-franks.html
Enjoy :-)
What can I say? This review is filled with so much priceless information
and insightful observations that can only be appreciated by a careful
reading and then re-reading of the piece. In fact, when I came across
the phrase "only complexity can convey the simplicity of truth" I was
visibly shaken, the words hit me so hard.

What I can say is thank you and damn you Archimago - thank you for
opening my eyes to the existence of this wonderful cable but on the
other hand damn you for for now causing me to put all my other audio
upgrades on hold and in many cases causing me to rethink some of my
audiophile beliefs. Now I must sell off my asynchronous USB DAC and my
$3,500 USB cable plus I must also reset my Touch to the standard factory
setting after struggling for the past 18 months with the TT3.0 in a vain
attempt to achieve audio nirvana, which I now realize can only be
attended with the Siren cable in my system.
Detective Tom Polhaus: [picks up the falcon] Heavy. What is it?

Sam Spade: The, uh, stuff that dreams are made of.

Detective Tom Polhaus: Huh?


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garym
2013-04-20 13:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by ralphpnj
Detective Tom Polhaus: [picks up the falcon] Heavy. What is it?
Sam Spade: The, uh, stuff that dreams are made of.
Detective Tom Polhaus: Huh?
perfect!


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Archimago
2013-04-20 15:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by ralphpnj
What can I say? This review is filled with so much priceless information
and insightful observations that can only be appreciated by a careful
reading and then re-reading of the piece. In fact, when I came across
the phrase "only complexity can convey the simplicity of truth" I was
visibly shaken, the words hit me so hard.
What I can say is thank you and damn you Archimago - thank you for
opening my eyes to the existence of this wonderful cable but on the
other hand damn you for for now causing me to put all my other audio
upgrades on hold and in many cases causing me to rethink some of my
audiophile beliefs. Now I must sell off my asynchronous USB DAC and my
$3,500 USB cable plus I must also reset my Touch to the standard factory
setting after struggling for the past 18 months with the TT3.0 in a vain
attempt to achieve audio nirvana, which I now realize can only be
attended with the Siren cable in my system.
Detective Tom Polhaus: [picks up the falcon] Heavy. What is it?
Sam Spade: The, uh, stuff that dreams are made of.
Detective Tom Polhaus: Huh?
Keaton's reply:
Yes Mr. Ralph, indeed the depth of Minoeall-san's words of wisdom
suggest truth incarnate and have made humble many a fellow. The years of
meditation have obviously produced a gentleman of great intellect and
transcendence.

I suggest you also visit and experience the achievements of his cousin
at Sakura Systems for more ethereal audio philosophy and products:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/

Best regards on your journey,
Keaton I G-E III, Esq.


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