Transporter or Transporter SE

[stochashtic]

Happy owner of a Transporter SE for the past two years. Looking to get
another one for my study.

I have come across someone selling the original (with knob) for an extra
$100. Worth it for nostalgia's sake.

My only concern is that the original was built many years ago vs SE more
recently. Should I have any concerns? Are they truly identical except
for the knob? Anything to worry about a piece of hi-fi sitting in
storage somewhere for years?

Thanks.


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[cliveb]

Post by stochashtic
Happy owner of a Transporter SE for the past two years. Looking to get
another one for my study.
I have come across someone selling the original (with knob) for an extra
$100. Worth it for nostalgia's sake.

I've only ever seen photos of the SE, but that plastic blanking plug to
fill the gap where the knob went looks butt-ugly to me, so I'd want the
non-SE for aesthetic reasons if nothing else. (I never use the knob on
my Transporter).

Post by stochashtic
My only concern is that the original was built many years ago vs SE more
recently. Should I have any concerns? I know they are identical
except for the knob? Anything to worry about a piece of hi-fi sitting
in storage somewhere for years?

I get the distinct impression that the SE was thrown together in order
to clear out inventory. Chances are the motherboards in SEs are just as
old as the ones in some non-SEs. (I wonder how many production runs
there were for TP motherboards?)



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A
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[stochashtic]

Post by cliveb
I've only ever seen photos of the SE, but that plastic blanking plug to
fill the gap where the knob went looks butt-ugly to me, so I'd want the
non-SE for aesthetic reasons if nothing else. (I never use the knob on
my Transporter).

I am very, very picky (my gf would say difficult) when it comes to
aesthetics. The plug is actually not ugly; looks fine.


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[garym]

Post by cliveb
I get the distinct impression that the SE was thrown together in order
to clear out inventory. Chances are the motherboards in SEs are just as
old as the ones in some non-SEs. (I wonder how many production runs
there were for TP motherboards?)

this is what I always believed to be true as well regarding the SE. The
age issue wouldn't bother me in this regard. p.s. My Apple II from
1980 still works fine (not that I use it for anything). And my 1958
Hallicrafters Mark III Radio still works too (and is almost a big as my
car).



*Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Streaming - Spotify
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[stochashtic]

I went with an SE in the end, as logitech provides a 3 year warranty.



Transporter SE -> Rotel RA-1062 -> Rotel RB-1582 MKII -> B&W CM10
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[th00ht]

Post by cliveb
I've only ever seen photos of the SE, but that plastic blanking plug to
fill the gap where the knob went looks butt-ugly to me, so I'd want the
non-SE for aesthetic reasons if nothing else. (I never use the knob on
my Transporter).

It is ugly, I can confirm. But as the equipment is inside a cupboard
anyway nobody will notice. :-)



Logitech Media Server 7.9.0 / Arch64 / Intel 945GCLF2
Living:'Transporter Second Edition (smashing wiki page!)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Transporter), 'Touch'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Squeezebox_Touch), 'Denon AVR
1912'
(http://www.denon-hifi.ch/ch/product/pages/product-detail.aspx?catid=hometheatre&subid=avreceivers&productid=avr1912)'
+ two CM8, two CM1, CMC'
(http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Speakers/Home_Audio/CM_Series)
Study:'Classic, Quad 303 + two Quad ESL 57'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?43875-A-SB3-a-Quad-303-and-the-left-hand-ESL)
Kitchen:'Radio White'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Squeezebox_Radio)
'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/th00ht), 'SoS, '
(http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/download-manager.html)'EAC
(free and great)' (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/)
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[pippin]

Um... What exactly do they offer for that "warranty"? They don't repair
Transporters anymore and they don't have stock left. Somehow it also
feels like I would not expect them to give you your money back... Not
that they end up offering to replace it with a radio as they have done
to Touch owners...



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
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[stochashtic]

Post by pippin
Um... What exactly do they offer for that "warranty"? They don't repair
Transporters anymore and they don't have stock left. Somehow it also
feels like I would not expect them to give you your money back... Not
that they end up offering to replace it with a radio as they have done
to Touch owners...

Well, they obviously do have stock as I just bought one from them ...

Either way, buying from Logitech is less risky than buying
non-warrantied stock from someone on eBay.



Transporter SE -> Rotel RA-1062 -> Rotel RB-1582 MKII -> B&W CM10
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[RonM]

Just curious, actually, as to what exactly is the advantage of a
Transporter (any model) over a Touch. I don't see anyone saying the
Touch's DAC is inferior, and it has outs usable for most purposes. It's
a newer design.

I use a TP every day, and have two Touches in reserve. Just not at all
sure that the TP is the superior option.

R.



LMS on a dedicated music server (FitPC2)
Transporter (ethernet) - main music listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm
speakers
Duet (wifi) - home theatre 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (wifi) - workspace
Boom 2 (wifi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (wifi) - home office
Touch x 2 - awaiting deployment
UE Radio - awaiting deployment
Control - 2 Controllers (main listening, home theatre, all others),
Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2), Music2Touch (BB Playbook)
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[netchord]

Post by RonM
Just curious, actually, as to what exactly is the advantage of a
Transporter (any model) over a Touch. I don't see anyone saying the
Touch's DAC is inferior, and it has outs usable for most purposes. It's
a newer design.
I use a TP every day, and have two Touches in reserve. Just not at all
sure that the TP is the superior option.
R.

i have both a transporter (with knob) and a touch. it's been some time
since i listened to them in the same system (they're in different rooms
now), but i'd say the transporter is unquestionably a better sounding
device, at least via its analog outputs.



--
4 TB Drobo-->FW 800-->mac mini-->Ethernet
Transporter--> Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax-->Meridian G61
G61--> Nordost Red Dawn-->Primare 30.3
Primare-->Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro
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[Julf]

Post by netchord
i have both a transporter (with knob) and a touch. it's been some time
since i listened to them in the same system (they're in different rooms
now), but i'd say the transporter is unquestionably a better sounding
device, at least via its analog outputs.

Was your comparison a level-matched, double-blind ABX? If not, I
question your use of the word "unquestionably" :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[bartman]

Post by Julf
Was your comparison a level-matched, double-blind ABX? If not, I
question your use of the word "unquestionably" :)

The biggest difference between the Touch and the Transporter (apart from
the size, look and the cost ) is the built in DAC on the transporter
(which is rated quite highly by several reviewers) and the multitude of
input and output connections on the transporter -- Analogue / digital
spdf / coax / BNC -- you can actually input another device into the
transporter and use it as a DAC.

A Modwright modified transporter adds a tubed analogue output stage to
the transporter -- and results in a very high end great sounding device
---- you could always add a comparable DAC to the Touch and get the same
sounding results ------ but the Transporter has a cool look that
integrates well with the rest of your audio gear

Comparing the sound of the Touch to the Transporter depends entirely on
what DAC you are running the Touch into ------ they are both limited to
24/96 digital files -- but I believe there are plug-ins for the Touch
that will allow (with a proper DAC) higher bit rate files to play ------
I don't think there are any work-arounds to allow 192 khz files to play
on the Transporter ( if someone knows this is possible -- p-lease
respond - as I'd like to get that working ! )

thanks

Bart


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[RonM]

Post by bartman
The biggest difference between the Touch and the Transporter (apart from
the size, look and the cost ) is the built in DAC on the transporter
(which is rated quite highly by several reviewers) and the multitude of
input and output connections on the transporter -- Analogue / digital
spdf / coax / BNC -- you can actually input another device into the
transporter and use it as a DAC.
A Modwright modified transporter adds a tubed analogue output stage to
the transporter -- and results in a very high end great sounding device
---- you could always add a comparable DAC to the Touch and get the same
sounding results ------ but the Transporter has a cool look that
integrates well with the rest of your audio gear
Comparing the sound of the Touch to the Transporter depends entirely on
what DAC you are running the Touch into ------ they are both limited to
24/96 digital files -- but I believe there are plug-ins for the Touch
that will allow (with a proper DAC) higher bit rate files to play ------
I don't think there are any work-arounds to allow 192 khz files to play
on the Transporter ( if someone knows this is possible -- p-lease
respond - as I'd like to get that working ! )

My question would be, what is the evidence that the built in DAC in the
Touch is inferior to that in the Transporter? I'm not actually
delusional enough to believe that I (as distinct from others with more
refined sensibilities) would actually find an advantage in a separate
DAC for either product.

R.



LMS on a dedicated music server (FitPC2)
Transporter (ethernet) - main music listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm
speakers
Duet (wifi) - home theatre 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (wifi) - workspace
Boom 2 (wifi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (wifi) - home office
Touch x 2 - awaiting deployment
UE Radio - awaiting deployment
Control - 2 Controllers (main listening, home theatre, all others),
Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2), Music2Touch (BB Playbook)
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[Mnyb]

Transporter have very low noise and thd a bit better than Touch , so it
has better DAC performance . And if you use the unbalanced output you
can tune the output level with built in attenuators .

The age of the design is not such a disadvantage as some might believe ,
the development of digital audio was very fast in the late 80's and 90's
but have basically flattened out at least re audible sound quality . 120
dB SN and very low thd and flat frequency response is going to sound the
same however it is achieved .

If you don't like that you can put in some tubes and get some noise and
thd and other nonlinear stuff back and enjoy that .
But I'm very sceptical to modification companies , a good design is a
usually not improved by sticking "audiophile" components at random
places .

Some late development have actually made DAC's that's worse than old
designs , like NOS DAC and other oddities ? Good neutral components will
sound very similar , if you want a thing to sound different you must do
" something " it's usually done by introducing some artefact and the it
sounds " better " ;)

The audio magazines are very good at hype , every new thing sound
dramatically better than the "old" stuff and have done so for decades ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[Julf]

Post by bartman
I don't think there are any work-arounds to allow 192 khz files to play
on the Transporter ( if someone knows this is possible -- p-lease
respond - as I'd like to get that working ! )

AFAIK the Transporter is limited to 96k, but that really isn't an issue.
I did try the EDO add-in on the Touch, and verified it could play 192k,
but there was absolutely no audible benefit - and no difference in my
double-blind ABX test.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[riffer]

For the more technically inclined:

Stereophile measurements for Transporter:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/slim-devices-transporter-network-music-player-measurements

Stereophile measurements for Touch:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/logitech-squeezebox-touch-network-music-player-measurements

Don't ask me which is better; well beyond my level of expertise.
Besides, I have no dog in the race, using an external DAC for both my
Touch and Transporter.


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[yeomanspc]

..and as I discovered recently, unless you bought/buy a Logitech device
direct from a logitech approved reseller, the warranty is voided anyway
and they refuse to speak to you.




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[jimbobvfr400]

But they look cool and HiFi.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk




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[pippin]

Balanced outputs. Which you need if you want to drive good active
speakers (unless you live in an anechoic chamber) which in turn is what
you want to do these days, at least when you buy new ones.

You'd ned an external DAC for the Touch for that.

Apart from that it's really primarily the looks, it really looks cool.
And it has this incredible force-feedback knob that feels so cool to
use. At least it did that one time I have ever used it to try it out
because it's of course really uncomfortable to kneel down in front of my
Transporter to use a complex menu on a two-line display so I only
control it remotely.
And due to some unexplainable, huge UX fail that cool knob can't just do
volume, which would be hugely useful. If I could only ask for one single
change to they device... But I've filed that bug something like 6 years
ago, not going to happen.

I'd probably prefer the Touch with an external DAC today due to it's
better codec support but you have to keep in mind that the Transporter
is a much older product than the Touch.



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[pippin]

Wow, didn't remember this. Looks like the Transporter indeed measures
quite a bit better, especially the DAC's resolution looks quite
superior. Wonder how it compares to a modern USB DAC.



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
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at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[Julf]

Post by pippin
Wow, didn't remember this. Looks like the Transporter indeed measures
quite a bit better, especially the DAC's resolution looks quite
superior.

I'd still be pretty surprised if the differences would actually be
audible.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[ralphpnj]

Post by pippin
Wow, didn't remember this. Looks like the Transporter indeed measures
quite a bit better, especially the DAC's resolution looks quite
superior. Wonder how it compares to a modern USB DAC.

The current audiophile craze for USB DACs stems from the (completely
overblown) issue of jitter in asynchronous USB, which has absolutely
nothing to do with how the digital audio stream is fed to the
Transporter since the Transporter uses either wi-fi or ethernet, neither
of which have any issues with jitter.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[pippin]

Well, now that's a totally different story, isn't it?
However, my experience is that over time when quality of one part of a
system improves then others improve as well: if all your steaming client
can reproduce is 160kbps mp3 there's little sense for high resolution
speakers and so on.

I remember very well to have participated in a listening test 13 years
ago in which nobody was able to tell apart 256 Kbps mp3 from a raw CD
signal. I still have the demo files and on my current setup I _am_ able
to tell apart at least some of the tracks - admittedly that doesn't mean
I will then know which one is mp3 and which one is raw, but that, again,
is a different story.
But maybe my ears simply got worse over the years to a point where it's
now easier to tell mp3 from the original music.



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[Julf]

Post by pippin
I remember very well to have participated in a listening test 13 years
ago in which nobody was able to tell apart 256 Kbps mp3 from a raw CD
signal. I still have the demo files and on my current setup I _am_ able
to tell apart at least some of the tracks - admittedly that doesn't mean
I will then know which one is mp3 and which one is raw, but that, again,
is a different story.
But maybe my ears simply got worse over the years to a point where it's
now easier to tell mp3 from the original music.

Quite possible - as we know, certain hearing loss patterns prevents the
normal masking effects. But mp3 encoders have also gotten better in 13
years...



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Julf]

Post by pippin
I remember very well to have participated in a listening test 13 years
ago in which nobody was able to tell apart 256 Kbps mp3 from a raw CD
signal. I still have the demo files and on my current setup I _am_ able
to tell apart at least some of the tracks - admittedly that doesn't mean
I will then know which one is mp3 and which one is raw, but that, again,
is a different story.
But maybe my ears simply got worse over the years to a point where it's
now easier to tell mp3 from the original music.

Quite possible - as we know, certain hearing loss patterns prevents the
normal masking effects.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[pippin]

Yes, actually that's the biggest change I notice. Comparing an mp3 I
encode today with one from 13 years ago makes such a big difference (and
yes, I do use 320 now instead of 256, hard drives also got cheaper)



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[pippin]

I am less concerned about any hype, I just believe that in the end USB
is the most simple connection type because all components are being
produced in the gazillions, so my guess would be that it's the segment
where you get most bang for the buck.
Plus, I'd hope they are smaller. I'm not really into filling up my
living room with 19-inch audio bricks :)



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[ralphpnj]

Post by pippin
I am less concerned about any hype, I just believe that in the end USB
is the most simple connection type because all components are being
produced in the gazillions, so my guess would be that it's the segment
where you get most bang for the buck.
Plus, I'd hope they are smaller. I'm not really into filling up my
living room with 19-inch audio bricks :)

Hype and audiophiles go hand in glove.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[pippin]

Yes, but I'm not an audiophile, I just want to listen to good music.
I hope I'm going to be happy with my Transporter for many years to come
but should it ever die, I'll need something with balanced outputs again
and hey, you know, it should be as good as the Transporter, too.



---
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and
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at penguinlovesmusic.com
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[ralphpnj]

Post by pippin
Yes, but I'm not an audiophile, I just want to listen to good music.
I hope I'm going to be happy with my Transporter for many years to come
but should it ever die, I'll need something with balanced outputs again
and hey, you know, it should be as good as the Transporter, too.

It's good to know that you don't drink or haven't drunk the audiophile
kool-aid but this the "Audiophiles" section of the forum and what I
wrote still applies, even if most of the Squeezebox community (as
represented by the members here) does not adhere to most audiophile
dogma.

By the way your entire post quoted above pretty much sums things for me
as well. At the moment the hardest thing about trying to good sounding
audio system is to try and figure out which parts of the audiophile
dogma to believe and which parts to ignore. Some of the basic audiophile
guidelines, such as system and speaker set up, can be very helpful. Then
again some of those guidelines, such as $1,000 power (mains) cords, can
be pretty outrageous and hard to swallow, not to mention, afford.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[daverich4]

Post by pippin
Yes, but I'm not an audiophile, I just want to listen to good music.
I hope I'm going to be happy with my Transporter for many years to come
but should it ever die, I'll need something with balanced outputs again
and hey, you know, it should be as good as the Transporter, too.

I wonder if something like this would work? I currently use my
Transporter to drive my Woo Audio WA22 headphone amp which requires that
you use it's balanced inputs to get the full output of the amp. It seems
like plugging this into any DAC with balanced outputs might do the
trick. Maybe?

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/585-sotm-sms-100-mini-server-review/


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[ralphpnj]

Post by daverich4
I wonder if something like this would work? I currently use my
Transporter to drive my Woo Audio WA22 headphone amp which requires that
you use it's balanced inputs to get the full output of the amp. It seems
like plugging this into any DAC with balanced outputs might do the
trick. It does work with LMS according to the review so you wouldn't
have to switch to another way to manage your music.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/585-sotm-sms-100-mini-server-review/

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[ralphpnj]

Just remember that a "review" on computeraudiophile.com is... well... a
"review". :)

True but when reading a "review" in any and all audiophile publications,
be they print or online, one can very easily ignore all the subjective
opinions regarding sound quality and just focus on the other issues
discussed and described, such as useability, features, physical
dimensions, etc.

So for example in the case of the SOtM sMS-100 Mini Server "review" one
learns that this little device appears to be a $450 Squeezebox
compatible "receiver" without an internal DAC, without any digital
outputs other than USB and without wi-fi streaming - basically it's an
Ethernet to USB digital audio converter which can use LMS. All the sound
quality mumbo jumbo can be safely and completely ignored.

But remember that it does have one big advantage over the Squeezebox
line of audio streaming devices - the SOtM sMS-100 Mini Server is still
in production whereas all of the various Squeezebox devices are no
longer being made.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[pippin]

Oh, I have my own guideline, it's conveniently short:

1. Try to have as few devices in your audio chain as possible. Every
signal processing has losses and you don't get that lost information
back, no matter how hard you try (yes, that dreaded second law of
thermodynamics affects information, too). I currently have
Transporter->Speakers. Perfect. Although it of course depends on the
design of the devices.

2. All fudging with the sound should be done by the speakers and I chose
the ones that sound best to me. All other components are necessary
burden and need to be minimized. Ideally, my next set of speakers has a
digital input or even a built-in streaming client - although the latter
means you need very, very good sync.

That's it. No need for expensive power supplies, power cables, closets,
stands or whatever.



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[Candlemass]

Post by pippin
1. Try to have as few devices in your audio chain as possible.

Tell it the audio engineers in the studio :p

Post by pippin
2. All fudging with the sound should be done by the speakers and I chose
the ones that sound best to me. All other components are necessary
burden and need to be minimized. Ideally, my next set of speakers has a
digital input or even a built-in streaming client - although the latter
means you need very, very good sync.

Why does it matter if you have a DAC, an amplifier and a speaker or a
DAC and an amplifier inside your speaker? :rolleyes: Your chain does not
get shorter this way, it's just built in one box instead of three boxes.


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[pippin]

Post by Candlemass
Tell it the audio engineers in the studio :p

They are creating the information. That's something else than not
distorting it. After the audio engineer has worked on it the music often
sounds nothing like the raw material he got at all.

Post by Candlemass
Why does it matter if you have a DAC, an amplifier and a speaker or a
DAC and an amplifier inside your speaker? :rolleyes: Your chain does not
get shorter this way, it's just built in one box instead of three boxes.

That's not true.
You save two important parts which account for the biggest part of the
loss in an audio chain today:

1. Cables. As mentioned above, for a line level signal that's not
negligible at all. Even with balanced outputs/inputs there still can and
will be EMC issues over several meters. That goes away if the DAC is in
the speaker.

2. Passive filters. Probably the number 1. If your amp is not matched to
the speaker (and actually to each driver within the speaker) you need to
use a passive, analog filter to separate the frequencies and to match
the signal with the frequency response of the speaker. Passive filters
are very, very limited compared to digital ones so you have to stack a
lot of them or build huge speakers with a very linear frequency response
or you have to use one-way wideband speakers. Stacking lots of filters
creates lots of losses. Building huge speakers is not very practical and
wideband speakers are usually limited in power.

Especially #2 trumps whatever you can do with DACs, power supplies,
cables, whatever. Not worth looking at any of these if you later
introduce signal losses a few orders of magnitude higher.
In very, very high end systems you sometimes use separate amps per
driver or speakers with a linear response but we are talking about stuff
you buy at the cost of a car or so. And why would you even want to do
that in a new design today, now that you can just match the amp with the
speaker since it's cheap enough to put two or three amps into a speaker
housing?



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[Candlemass]

Of course it is a total different story if you are using DSPs and
digital filtering to to get the best response from your speaker (or the
speaker in a specific room), but that is the total opposite to the "try
to have as few devices in your audio chain as possible" pragma. Or, at
least, I did understand you wrong there ;)


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[pippin]

You did understand me completely wrong. But you are aware how speakers
with multiple drivers actually work, right?

I'm talking Class D amps and digital (matching and crossover) filters
vs. analog amps and analog filters (crossover only). No DSP stuff.
For each speaker you need a separate crossover filter (high-pass for the
tweeters, low-pass for the woofers, bandpass for the medium sized ones).
In a passive speaker these filters create huge losses - both in terms of
signal quality and of actual power loss - because analog filters can
only be so good. Even a 4th order. And you can't create a filter
characteristic to match the frequency response of the driver and case.
Because creating complex analog filters will create even more losses.

With a digital filter and a separate amp per driver (as it's done in
active speakers) you have no such issues. Effectively, the audio chain
is much, much shorter.

Analog: DAC - preamp - amp - filter-cascade - driver
Digital: DAC - amp - single filter - driver



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[Candlemass]

And these digital filters are done in a DSP:
* Signal -> DSP -> one DAC/amp per driver -> drivers


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[stochashtic]

...
Ideally, my next set of speakers has a digital input or even a built-in
streaming client - although the latter means you need very, very good
sync.

You may want to check out the Devialet Phantom speakers.

I am now using a Devialet amp and the sound is unbelievable. I have yet
to check whether streaming directly to the Devialet has noticeable
difference than going through my Transporter; I am afraid to as I love
my LMS ecosystem.



Transporter SE -> Devialet 120 -> B&W CM10
Transporter SE -> Rotel RA-1062 -> B&W PM1
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[pippin]

Sure, but if you don't use it as an additional device but to replace
analog filters, losses are much lower.
Ideally (my DAC in the speaker) you can do all the processing even
before the DAC. One DAC per channel will eventually get cheap enough,
too.



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[pippin]

Sure. That would be the ideal setup with the lowest losses (you need one
DSP per driver or a DSP powerful enough to process several channels
simultaneously).



---
learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox
and
Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App,
at penguinlovesmusic.com
*New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7*
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[jimbobvfr400]

While I appreciate there's more to it but it sounds suspiciously like a
RPI running picoreplayer in a nice case, or at least similar
functionality.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk




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[Candlemass]

It's a 2500 $ mini PC :rolleyes:
Just buy an Intel NUC and add a DAC of choice... Or a piCorePlayer with
Hifiberry digi and add a DAC of choice...


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[dagordon]

I have a new in box black Transporter SE I'll sell for $750, and a
pristine condition black Transporter with knob and all original
accessories I'll sell for $600. Figured I would mention it here before
putting them on eBay... PM me if interested.


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[ymw]

I am interested in the Transporter if you still have it. Somehow, I
cannot PM, maybe because I am new?

ym


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