Touch + DAC? to drive my power amps

[Kellen]

Hello I am hopeful that someone can give me infos to make an important
decision with my audio gears.

I have a Touch connected to a Quicksilver preamp which is connected to
Quicksilver KT88 amps which is connected to Vandersteen 2ce signature
speakers. I no longer run a turntable and only run the Touch as my
source. Days ago I have connected the Touch direct to my power amps and
controlled the volume with my Touch. It sounded better to my ear than
when connected to my preamp. My belief afterwards is that my pre is not
needed other than to turn volume up/down. So, I would like to sell my
preamp buy a better DAC to connect to my Touch and use this DAC to
control volume. I am willing to spend $2000 for a DAC.

I have been reading about using DACs in direct modes to power amps and
it seems that not all DACs are up to snuffs to do so. It seems to be
that you want a DAC with low output impeadance and enough drives
current. It sounds as though many properly designed op amp based DACs
work well at this. Is it the same for tube and discreet output DACs?
Would they have the right impeadance and current that op amps have? Is
their a list of DACs that show what impedance and current they give off
to better tell if they are good matches to use as volume controls ?

I read that a reason why many people dont like to use the Touch direct
to amps is because of the damage that can be done to your speakers if
the volume control doesnt work and it gets too loud. Is this the same
for a DAC such as the NAD m51 which very much interests me?

Thankyou for all the help.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kellen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16569
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[ralphpnj]

As per the NAD web site the NAD M51 is a "35-bit 844kHz DAC and Digital
Preamp" which means that it would be a perfect fit for what you are
trying to do.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[cliveb]

Post by ralphpnj
As per the NAD web site the NAD M51 is a "35-bit 844kHz DAC and Digital
Preamp" which means that it would be a perfect fit for what you are
trying to do.

I recently had a PM exchange with another user who tried replacing a
failed Transporter with a NAD M51 driven from a Squeezebox Touch. He
didn't like the NAD's sound and returned it, and got a used TP to
replace his dead one. He didn't say the TP is better than the NAD, just
that they are different and he prefers the TP's sound.

So even though the NAD has wonderful specs on paper, be warned that -
like all high-end equipment - you really should audition before
purchase.

Returning to the original poster's question. The Quicksilver website
states that the KT88 input impedance is 100k. That is fairly typical (or
perhaps a little higher than typical, which is a good thing). I can't
imagine you'd find any DAC with an output impedance high enough to have
a problem driving the KT88.

BTW, I am a big fan of driving power amps directly from DACs. My TP is
connected directly to the power amps in my active ATCs (via passive
attenuators to get correct gain staging) and it gives the best sound
I've ever had at home.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[Mnyb]

The new benchmark dac2 ? or the old dac1 and use it's built in
attenuators for correct gain scaling .

AFAIK many of benchmarks models can have preamp capability as an option
, gain scaling and a volume control some also has extra analog inputs .

And gain scaling is important ,what good are your megabuck hifi if you
throw away 10-20db of sn ratio ?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[jazzman53]

I'm not very knowledgeable about DAC's but I have a Squeezebox Touch
that I now use as both server and preamp. I'm bypassing the SB's
internal DAC and using the Toslink digital out into a DSP crossover/DAC.
The SB controls the volume via the SqeezePad app on my Ipad. My
DSP/3-way Crossover/DAC has adjustable limiters on each band which I've
enabled and set to limit the max input to the amps. It sounds
fantastic.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
jazzman53's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46415
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[Daverz]

I've gotten excellent results hooking my DAC directly to my amps and
using the SB Touch volume control.

I have a Neko DAC that has a 1V output level (unfortunately he stopped
making these; the new ones are standard 2V), and my Rogue amps have a
sensitivity of 1V, so they are a good match. However, I went back to
using my tube pre-amp for the extra air that it adds.

The Benchmark DACs have pretty flexible output gain settings, and they
seem to be well regarded. I didn't care for the sound of the HDR Pre I
had home for audition.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[alec_cat]

I have a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and NAD M51 on evaluation right now. I'm
running both straight into my ATC P1 power amp with no problems. The
DAC2 also allows you to change the padding on the XLR outputs for best
S/N ratio. I'm still evaluating which sounds better -- they are quite
different, but I have absolutely no interest in getting a dedicated
preamp.

At the end of the day, you have to try things out with your gear and let
your taste prevail.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
alec_cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48527
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[darrenyeats]

Another vote for Benchmark. I use a DAC1 HDR into active speakers but
I'm sure the DAC2 will do the job!

As mentioned, set up the output attenuators for best SNR. I use -30db
setting and this also happens to be best (counter-intuitively, it seems
to me) for output impedance into the power amps.
Darren


------------------------------------------------------------------------
darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[guidof]

Post by alec_cat
At the end of the day, you have to try things out with your gear and let
your taste prevail.

+1!

If there is one thing I've learned in more than 50 years of audiophilia,
it's that although specs, reviews, and recommendations are useful
starting points, one's system, room, musical tastes, and sound
preferences ultimately are what determines the value of a choice or an
upgrade.

Personally, I subscribe to the idea that the best preamp is no preamp.
Yet, in my main system I prefer the sound presentation with my preamp in
the chain (see sig) albeit in passive mode and with the gain set to max
over feeding my amp straight from my DSPeaker DAC/EQ. (The volume
control in the latter seems more transparent than that in my preamp.)

Best luck!

Guido F.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595

[darrenyeats]

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137152
Some observations about the Benchmark DAC1

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2


------------------------------------------------------------------------
darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97595