New HDMI Guest Review & Measurements...

[Archimago]

Greetings.
True to his word, Keaton Goulden-Eyre has reviewed another set of cables
for me... Along with some HDMI cable measurements...

Enjoy :-)

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/11/guest-review-measurements-quantum-hdmi.html



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[ralphpnj]

Thank you so much for presenting a clear and very reasonable
introduction and review to this wonderful new product. However I do have
a few questions which I feel are very important.

As you know the new audiophile standard for listening to computer based
audio is the Mac Mini -> USB -> tube based asynchronous USB DAC -> tube
pre-amp -> tube power amp, at least according to the golden eared gods
at both TAS and Stereophile. Now the Mac Mini does have a HDMI port so
clearly the the Quantum HDMI Squeezer + ULTRA Cable set up would be
ideal except that so few audiophile DAC's presently have HDMI inputs. So
my two fold question is a) what DAC's presently feature HDMI input and
b) are there any plans to bring the groundbreaking technology of the
Quantum HDMI Squeezer + ULTRA Cable to a USB cable?? Please, please,
pretty please!!



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[Archimago]

Post by ralphpnj
Thank you so much for presenting a clear and very reasonable
introduction and review to this wonderful new product. However I do have
a few questions which I feel are very important.
As you know the new audiophile standard for listening to computer based
audio is the Mac Mini -> USB -> tube based asynchronous USB DAC -> tube
pre-amp -> tube power amp, at least according to the golden eared gods
at both TAS and Stereophile. Now the Mac Mini does have a HDMI port so
clearly the the Quantum HDMI Squeezer + ULTRA Cable set up would be
ideal except that so few audiophile DAC's presently have HDMI inputs. So
my two fold question is a) what DAC's presently feature HDMI input and
b) are there any plans to bring the groundbreaking technology of the
Quantum HDMI Squeezer + ULTRA Cable to a USB cable?? Please, please,
pretty please!!

Thank you Ralph for your inquiry.

1. The gods are correct. TAS and Stereophile are written by gentlemen of
distinction who are genetically devoid of earwax and hearing loss. I of
course run a custom HDMI DAC because I'm worth it and could afford to
hire one of the chief digital consultants at Integra, Meridian and
Esoteric to design the circuitry and Nodko-san to have his boutique
Japanese workshop to realize the device with point-to-point soldering
using fine silver wire and hand selected/individually heard components.
The gods are aware that HDMI is best, just that we in the upper crust
will not release this Truth yet. In a couple years, when asynchronous
USB becomes -passￜ-, TAS and Stereophile will surely speak more about
HDMI when the general populace is ready. Consider my article a peek of
what is to come. For now, everyone else will need to use their low-end
HDMI receivers or something pedestrian like the NAD M51:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m51-direct-digital-da-converter

2. As in my interview, those quantum resonances are unique to small
connectors and especially micro-HDMI. In recent E-mail exchanges with
QuantaVibes, I do believe they will be -trying -to recalculate the
equations for micro-USB! It looks like USB users could very well be in
for some fun ;). This could be especially wonderful for tablet users!

Thank you for the interest...

Yours humbly,
Keaton I. Goulden-Eyre III



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[ralphpnj]

Post by Archimago
Thank you Ralph for your inquiry.
1. The gods are correct. TAS and Stereophile are written by gentlemen of
distinction who are genetically devoid of earwax and hearing loss. I of
course run a custom HDMI DAC because I'm worth it and could afford to
hire one of the chief digital consultants at Integra, Meridian and
Esoteric to design the circuitry and Nodko-san to have his boutique
Japanese workshop to realize the device with point-to-point soldering
using fine silver wire and hand selected/individually heard components.
The gods are aware that HDMI is best, just that we in the upper crust
will not release this Truth yet. In a couple years, when asynchronous
USB becomes -passe-, TAS and Stereophile will surely speak more about
HDMI when the general populace is ready. Consider my article a peek of
what is to come. For now, everyone else will need to use their low-end
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m51-direct-digital-da-converter
2. As in my interview, those quantum resonances are unique to small
connectors and especially micro-HDMI. In recent E-mail exchanges with
QuantaVibes, I do believe they will be -trying -to recalculate the
equations for micro-USB! It looks like USB users could very well be in
for some fun ;). This could be especially wonderful for tablet users!
Thank you for the interest...
Yours humbly,
Keaton I. Goulden-Eyre III

WOW! What an informative response. I must I always suspected that there
was more HDMI than meets the eye (and ear). As for your hints that the
ground breaking Quantum Squeezer technology might be coming to USB makes
me giddy just thinking of all the possibilities this would open up.
Quantum-izing the micro-USB connection would mean that tablets could
well be the only source component needed a the high end audio system.
The Great God Steven Jobs is surely smiling down on you and your
incredible breakthrough.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[Mnyb]

Thanks again for the measurement part .

Hdmi has been accused of horrible " jitter " in it's implementation ?
And there are probably some not so fantastic implementations out there
especially older ht amps .
Can you see any of that in this Onkyo amp ?

What's the spectrum using spdif or toslink at the same amp , I can't
remember if this amp has figured in any of the other parts of your epic
measurement series .

This will ofcourse not change the fact that all functioning hdmi cables
will yield the same result . But hdmi vs spdiff could be interesting .

This is ofcourse another question than the one you tested .

Btw is it really possible to make satire about these guys :) they do
work as described using equipment who's noise and distortion behaviour (
tubes and or other cargo cult designs ) that definetely have the
possibility to mask any subtle differences that could exist .
This is actually to some extent possible , you can infact hear subtle
differences even if you use speakers that are far from linear compared
to the electronics ,but at moderate levels good speakers are not that
bad . But it would not exactly help to drive these speakers with amps
that barely can handle them :) to further ad insult to injury many cult
speakers are designed to be used with said amps ? In reality the deviate
from good contemporary speaker design to be able to use these amps !? 2
wrongs does make 1 silly or what ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[Archimago]

Post by Mnyb
Thanks again for the measurement part .
Hdmi has been accused of horrible " jitter " in it's implementation ?
And there are probably some not so fantastic implementations out there
especially older ht amps .
Can you see any of that in this Onkyo amp ?
What's the spectrum using spdif or toslink at the same amp , I can't
remember if this amp has figured in any of the other parts of your epic
measurement series .
This will ofcourse not change the fact that all functioning hdmi cables
will yield the same result . But hdmi vs spdiff could be interesting .
This is ofcourse another question than the one you tested .
Btw is it really possible to make satire about these guys :) they do
work as described using equipment who's noise and distortion behaviour (
tubes and or other cargo cult designs ) that definetely have the
possibility to mask any subtle differences that could exist .
This is actually to some extent possible , you can infact hear subtle
differences even if you use speakers that are far from linear compared
to the electronics ,but at moderate levels good speakers are not that
bad . But it would not exactly help to drive these speakers with amps
that barely can handle them :) to further ad insult to injury many cult
speakers are designed to be used with said amps ? In reality the deviate
from good contemporary speaker design to be able to use these amps !? 2
wrongs does make 1 silly or what ?

Hello mnyb.
Glad to see you guys enjoying Keaton's "kontribution". The man's old but
crafty :cool:.

Yes, I did test the Onkyo relatively fully back in this post:
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/10/measurements-onkyo-tx-nr1009-as-hdmi.html

The HDMI jitter actually was fine in comparison to SPDIF coaxial and
TosLink! In fact, it was better than coaxial and about equivalent to
TosLink using the little CM6631A device for USB-to-SPDIF conversion.
This is a bit of a surprise since the asynchronous USB CM6631A is
usually quite adequate and relatively low in jitter as in previous
measurements.

Of course the jitter spectrum isn't as good as with the Transporter or
TEAC stereo DAC, but it's quite reasonable and miles better than
something like the distortion one sees with NOS DACs when doing the
J-Test. Not to mention tube gear which would likely just drown out the
signal with noise. I wrote a bit on HDMI and jitter in that post as
well...



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[Mnyb]

Post by Archimago
Hello mnyb.
Glad to see you guys enjoying Keaton's "kontribution". The man's old but
crafty :cool:.
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/10/measurements-onkyo-tx-nr1009-as-hdmi.html
The HDMI jitter actually was fine in comparison to SPDIF coaxial and
TosLink! In fact, it was better than coaxial and about equivalent to
TosLink using the little CM6631A device for USB-to-SPDIF conversion.
This is a bit of a surprise since the asynchronous USB CM6631A is
usually quite adequate and relatively low in jitter as in previous
measurements.
Of course the jitter spectrum isn't as good as with the Transporter or
TEAC stereo DAC, but it's quite reasonable and miles better than
something like the distortion one sees with NOS DACs when doing the
J-Test. Not to mention tube gear which would likely just drown out the
signal with noise. I wrote a bit on HDMI and jitter in that post as
well...

Good to see , it's basically a toss up depending in implementation as
usual , there is no way to favor any digital interface over the other
all basically "works".

And AV recievers have got awesome performance lately ? If it has preout
you can probably surprise an unsuspecting audiophile :) using the preout
to drive power amps . The weakness in HT recievers are still the power
amp and the power supply they may struggle with some speakers .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[ralphpnj]

Post by Mnyb
Good to see , it's basically a toss up depending in implementation as
usual , there is no way to favor any digital interface over the other
all basically "works".
And AV recievers have got awesome performance lately ? If it has preout
you can probably surprise an unsuspecting audiophile :) using the preout
to drive power amps . The weakness in HT recievers are still the power
amp and the power supply they may struggle with some speakers .

Not all HT receivers have inferior power amp sections. Marantz HTRs all
seem to have very decent power amp sections as do the top models from
most manufacturers. It's the el cheapo receivers that have not so good
power amp sections.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[Mnyb]

Post by ralphpnj
Not all HT receivers have inferior power amp sections. Marantz HTRs all
seem to have very decent power amp sections as do the top models from
most manufacturers. It's the el cheapo receivers that have not so good
power amp sections.

Can you drive your Vandersteens with the marantz ? , I've used a mixed
topology in the past driving some channels with the ht amp and some with
more powerfull amps .
My old Dynaudio speakers where basically low impedance 4 ohm and very
inefficient they worked much better with 3 separate power amps but that
was a decade ago time goes fast ....
I can see it work fine in some combinations , I suspect that large B&W
speakers could be a challenge too .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321

[ralphpnj]

Post by Mnyb
Can you drive your Vandersteens with the marantz ? , I've used a mixed
topology in the past driving some channels with the ht amp and some with
more powerfull amps .
My old Dynaudio speakers where basically low impedance 4 ohm and very
inefficient they worked much better with 3 separate power amps but that
was a decade ago time goes fast ....
I can see it work fine in some combinations , I suspect that large B&W
speakers could be a challenge too .

I never tried connecting the Vandersteens to the Marantz so I can't
answer that question but I do know that the Marantz has a fairly decent
power amp section, which it should since the damn thing is pretty darn
big.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321