[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best Streaming Hardware For Audiophile and Hi Res File Support

[ShutterShock]

I currently run LMS on a Synology NAS. That supports a Squeezebox Touch
with the EOD modification. The S/PDIF on the SB Touch feeds an internal
DAC on my Hegel H190 integrated amp.

Is this configuration still considered the state of the art for an
audiophile with a fairly large library of Hi Res files? Are there
Raspberry Pi configurations, for example, that sound better and struggle
less with Hi Res files?

Comments/suggestions appreciated.



Tim

Living Room: Touch, Bryston B60R w/built-in DAC, PMC FB1i Speakers
Kitchen: Boom
Bedroom: Radio
iPeng / Controller for all
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[Man in a van]

Any difference in sound will be be subjective anyway and to find out you
will have to either buy "stuff" or borrow "stuff"
.
I have used HiFiBerry spdif hats on a raspberry pi and now use a Allo
Digione (bought second hand) into a NorthStar Essensio DAC.

I can compare the same stream via USB and Co-ax inputs into the dac and
find little if any difference to my old ears.

Your amplifier is also a DLNA streamer so you should be able to stream
directly from the NAS. This would give you any opportunity to compare
the two different methods of playback.

In what way does the SBTouch struggle with the music files?

Which LMS version are you using on the NAS?

You might, for example, effect more change in your perception of the
sound quality by using/comparing different speakers. (For what it's
worth, your current set-up is,IMO, deffo not to be sneezed at.:p:))

Ronnie, who is more "outside" of Toronto than the OP:)


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[ShutterShock]

Post by Man in a van
Your amplifier is also a DLNA streamer so you should be able to stream
directly from the NAS. This would give you any opportunity to compare
the two different methods of playback.
In what way does the SBTouch struggle with the music files?
Which LMS version are you using on the NAS?)

NAS is a DS-218+ running LMS 7.7.6-116. The system was breaking up and
stuttering on a 192/24 file. In all fairness, the NAS may have been
running other tasks at the time.

I have tried the amp's DLNA capabilities using UPnPBridge - the LMS
plugin. The sound was terrific and I liked the user experience (i.e.: a
headless Squeezebox). I stopped using this configuration when I
discovered the plugin wouldn't play my hi res files. I got in touch with
the plugin author and he confirmed higher bit rates are a challenge for
his plugin. If I could get DLNA to work solidly with all my files, I'd
be all set!

Any suggestions very much appreciated.



Tim

Living Room: SB Touch, Hegel H190 w/built-in DAC, Totem Acoustics Sky
Bookshelf Speakers
Bedroom: Boom
iPeng / Controller for all
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[ballhill]

Hello
This is my first post on this forum, but I have used info from here for
years.
I have been using a squeezebox touch for 10 years now and I just keep
finding ways of getting better sound out of it.
When I first got my SBT I just used the on-board DAC connected to an
Audiolab three box amp (pre and two power amps) and a pair of EB
Acoustics stand mount speakers. I eventually got a NAS to work with it
and tried an old Arcam DAC with it. Nothing special, but it was
convenient. Then four years ago, my wife indulged me a massive upgrade
and I bought a pair of ATC SMC 40 speakers, and I got and second hand
ATC P150 (so 150watts) power amp and a CDA2 pre with built in CD and
DAC. I also gave up on the NAS box and went for having a dedicated PC
for my music.
This was a truly stunning upgrade, but I found myself moving to vinyl to
get the best sound out of the speakers.
Going back to the SBT, I set up the EDO applet and tried the optical V
digital connects and didn't notice much difference. Then this year I got
a second hand DAC - a Chord 2Qute. The was a very fine upgrade and
started giving my vinyl a run for its money. I bought (second hand
because I am tight) separate power supplies for both the SBT and the
2Qute - small but noticeable differences. Then one day while reading
this forum I noticed someone writing that the EDO applet could make the
USB socket into a USB output from the SBT to the DAC. I had assumed this
was a bad idea, but was curious enough to get a USB cord from my printer
and give it a go. So switched everything off, connected it up, switched
on the SBT went to the EDO applet and selected USB source, and it said
“connect to 2Qute” - that seemed too good to be true. Well it wasn't!
Listening to music was now a revelation - I was absolutely blown away. I
have since put in a 15cm silver USB cable (and it makes a difference)
from the SBT to the 2Qute.
I can hear the difference if I don't use the separate power supplies on
the SBT or the 2Qute, if I change cables and especially if I have hi res
material V just a CD rip. I seriously have no noise floor. I can't see
the point in vinyl anymore as it simply isn't near as good as going from
the SBT to the 2Qute via USB.
I use a dedicated PC for my music files. It is backed up every night and
is quite fast. I only use WIFI to the SBT and have no drop outs. Of
course there are better systems out there, but we are stunned every day
we listen to this.
Curiously last year before we get the 2Qute, I made a Raspberry pi digi
only box (using Hiberry), and it was such a downgrade that I would never
consider it again.
So, yes a SBT can be at the centre of a high end transparent system. I
simply can't see any point in changing it, as it is so obviously not a
weak spot (yet!).
If you have speakers that are totally revealing, you can go a very long
way with the SBS and Hi Res audio is the way to go.


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[Stratmangler]

I had a look at the manual for the Hegel, and there's no mention of
being able to handle 24/192 anywhere.
If it were capable of handling 24/192 on any of the inputs they would
state so - it widens the scope for potential purchasers.

My Touch is quite happy dishing out 24/192 files to my 24/192 capable
DAC over coaxial SPDIF.



Chris :)
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[ballhill]

Post by Stratmangler
I had a look at the manual for the Hegel, and there's no mention of
being able to handle 24/192 anywhere.
If it were capable of handling 24/192 on any of the inputs they would
state so - it widens the scope for potential purchasers.
My Touch is quite happy dishing out 24/192 files to my 24/192 capable
DAC over coaxial SPDIF.

Stratmangler - can your DAC accept USB? If it can, try your SBT to your
DAC - only take 15 minutes to try! I always assumed USB was somehow
inferior; I guess I thought USB was kind of computer stuff and coax /
optical was hifi stuff - that was a misconception.


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[Man in a van]

Like Chris, I have had a bit of a google and found this

http://www.audioreference.co.nz/product/hegel-h190-150w-integrated-amp-fully-balanced-w-24192-dac-usb-airplay-spotify

But no info on the dac seems to be provided by the mfg (not that I can
find).

I would suggest the OP tries *BubbleUPnP * with a cheapo (ie, borrowed)
Android phone, maybe also e-mail Hegel.

I used to run LMS on a Qnap NAS, but now mostly use a rpi3B+
(occasionally with a lapse into mac-mini land:rolleyes:)

Ronnie


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[Stratmangler]

Post by ballhill
Stratmangler - can your DAC accept USB? If it can, try your SBT to your
DAC - only take 15 minutes to try! I always assumed USB was somehow
inferior; I guess I thought USB was kind of computer stuff and coax /
optical was hifi stuff - that was a misconception.

No, my DAC does not have a USB port on it.



Chris :)
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[ShutterShock]

Thank you very much everyone. This is a lot to digest.

First, the backstory... Hegel will have a software upgrade to the H190
shortly that will enable the amp/dac as a Roon endpoint. I was planning
to head this way after having been a loyal SB user since the days of the
SB1. With that in mind, my SB Touch is for sale. At least that was the
case until I discovered some things about Roon library management I
didn't like.

So, here I am with a buyer interested in my SB Touch.

While not confirmed, the H190's DAC only supports files up to 96/24.
Does anyone have any experience with the UPnPBridge/squeeze2upnp plugin
for LMS at that datarate? I suspect I hadn't set that because I wouldn't
have known when I tested the UPnP capabilities a few months ago.

I don't dispute everyone's love for the SBT - I feel it too, but if I
can get this plugin to work, the H190 becomes the player as well as the
DAC.

Comments *very* much appreciated.



Tim

Living Room: SB Touch, Hegel H190 w/built-in DAC, Totem Acoustics Sky
Bookshelf Speakers
Bedroom: Boom
iPeng / Controller for all
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[slartibartfast]

Post by ShutterShock
Thank you very much everyone. This is a lot to digest.
First, the backstory... Hegel will have a software upgrade to the H190
shortly that will enable the amp/dac as a Roon endpoint. I was planning
to head this way after having been a loyal SB user since the days of the
SB1. With that in mind, my SB Touch is for sale. At least that was the
case until I discovered some things about Roon library management I
didn't like.
So, here I am with a buyer interested in my SB Touch.
While not confirmed, the H190's DAC only supports files up to 96/24.
Does anyone have any experience with the UPnPBridge/squeeze2upnp plugin
for LMS at that datarate? I suspect I hadn't set that because I wouldn't
have known when I tested the UPnP capabilities a few months ago.
I don't dispute everyone's love for the SBT - I feel it too, but if I
can get this plugin to work, the H190 becomes the player as well as the
DAC.
Comments *very* much appreciated.

I am not sure if gapless playback is supported when using squeeze2upnp
but if this is important to you I would check.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk




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[ShutterShock]

Post by slartibartfast
I am not sure if gapless playback is supported when using
squeeze2upnp...

By default, I don't believe it is. Apparently you can change a setting
to support gapless but, as I understand it, it's not recommended.
Gapless is definitely a "nice to have" but I think I could get by
without it.



Tim

Living Room: SB Touch, Hegel H190 w/built-in DAC, Totem Acoustics Sky
Bookshelf Speakers
Bedroom: Boom
iPeng / Controller for all
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[Stratmangler]

Post by ShutterShock
By default, I don't believe it is. Apparently you can change a setting
to support gapless but, as I understand it, it's not recommended.
Gapless is definitely a "nice to have" but I think I could get by
without it.

You'd be fine without it (gapless) right up until the point where you
play an album that segues from one track to another, and the tracks
instead have an annoying gap between them.
The gap may be incredibly small, but it's there.
Once you've heard that then the irritation will grow every time you hear
it ....



Chris :)
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[ShutterShock]

Post by Stratmangler
You'd be fine without it (gapless) right up until the point where you
play an album that segues from one track to another, and the tracks
instead have an annoying gap between them.
The gap may be incredibly small, but it's there.
Once you've heard that then the irritation will grow every time you hear
it ....

Good point.

The plugin claims to support gapless. I stress tested it with Abbey Road
- scrubbing within a given track and then letting it "hand off" to the
next related track. It was gapless about 50% of the time. If, on the
other hand, I let the album play without interfering with it, it was
gapless 100% of the time. Good enough for me.

Thanks everyone for their input.



Tim

Living Room: SB Touch, Hegel H190 w/built-in DAC, Totem Acoustics Sky
Bookshelf Speakers
Bedroom: Boom
iPeng / Controller for all
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[ralphpnj]

It's threads like this that make me really miss arnyk. In other words,
it appears that it's now safe to drink the kool-aid.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[doctor_big]

Post by ralphpnj
It's threads like this that make me really miss arnyk. In other words,
it appears that it's now safe to drink the kool-aid.Have you run out of audio journalists to stalk? Or are you right now

sitting in a car outside John Atkinson's place with a long lens SLR in
your lap?




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[Apesbrain]

Post by ralphpnj
It's threads like this that make me really miss arnyk. In other words,
it appears that it's now safe to drink the kool-aid.

It may or may not be safe, but there's no dearth of people willing to do
so.


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[ralphpnj]

Post by Apesbrain
It may or may not be safe, but there's no dearth of people willing to do
so.

Nonetheless it was nice to have a little sanctuary from the madness.
Alas I am not dedicated enough nor inclined to defend such a small
island of sanity in a vast sea of insanity. Let them have at it. I just
try to shift through all dross to come up with a few worthwhile ideas.
When he wasn't being negative arnyk could and and did provide some very
useful information.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[sgmlaw]

Late to this thread, but any audio streaming breakdown here is more
likely caused by a networking infrastructure deficiency as opposed to a
storage device or server problem, provided the NAS is not being asked to
work like a 12-core Xeon server.

Digital audio, even at high definition bitrates, consumes very modest
bandwidth, especially compared to more demanding HD or 4k video streams.
It is never going to saturate even an antiquated 54mb g wireless link.
No NAS or HDD made in the last decade will have any problem spooling off
a 3,000 kb/s hi-res audio stream.

If it’s a wireless hookup, make sure the router isn’t overtaxed feeding
too many 2.4 ghz clients. And even if it’s an ethernet connection, a
more modern router and quality switch gear can be the deciding factor.
Sometimes QoS needs to be tweaked to give the audio/video streams higher
queue priority in a busy network.

The explosion of the “Internet of Things” and smart wireless connected
everything in the past few years is now pushing top-tier routers of only
a few years ago to their limits. Home networks exceeding 30 active
clients is now more common, and would have been unheard of only 5 years
ago.

I am not a big fan of running LMS on a NAS with a larger library if you
are asking the NAS to do too many other things. A NAS is not a multi
purpose server machine. If it’s already an iTunes, DLNA and general
data server, a surveillance camera cache, and a TimeMachine or other
backup disk target too, it’s often asking too much of a consumer grade
NAS to simultaneously stream a lot of audio besides. By larger library,
I mean one exceeding 30,000 tracks. Try capping off the playlist length
on weaker server machines with larger libraries.

SOTA is in the eye of the beholder. A $14,000 Mac Pro server machine
feeding a 10G ethernet network to a Touch might be SOTA to someone with
a fat wallet looking to impress geeks, but is totally unnecessary. A
modern dual-core NAS running LMS and not much else through an AC3100
router to a Touch is a more practical SOTA for the application and is
more than enough hardware to support several HD audio streams.


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