[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Blue Tooth questions

[ralphpnj]

Blue Tooth questions:

Does blue tooth transmit an analog or digital signal or both or a mix of
both? And if it can transmit either analog or digital how does one know
which type of signal is being used?

Color me confused.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
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Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
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[alverus]

Bluetooth is always a digital signal. The used profile is A2DP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles#Advanced_Audio_Distribution_Profile_.28A2DP.29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBC_(codec)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AptX

I think that should be enough infos for you?
What's your plan with bluetooth?


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[drmatt]

Everything is digital now. But Bluetooth audio reencodes the audio from
the decoded PCM at the output stage, it does not transmit either the raw
pcm itself or the original flac/mp3 data.




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[ralphpnj]

Post by alverus
Bluetooth is always a digital signal. The used profile is A2DP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles#Advanced_Audio_Distribution_Profile_.28A2DP.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBC_(codec)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AptX
I think that should be enough infos for you?
What's your plan with bluetooth?
Everything is digital now. But Bluetooth audio reencodes the audio from
the decoded PCM at the output stage, it does not transmit either the raw
pcm itself or the original flac/mp3 data.

Thanks for quick responses!

After attempting to read through the wikipedia links I went from mildly
confused to completely and utterly confused.

So bluetooth is digital but there appears to many different types of
digital signals available and each one of a slightly different quality.
So how does one which digital codex is being used and of what quality?
Or is just a complete crap shoot?

For example I can stream audio from my iPhone to:

1) my car stereo

2) a bluetooth speaker (UE Boom and Pyle Street Blaster)

3) a small bluetooth receiver (with a 1/8" stereo jack) for use with
non-bluetooth devices.
http://www.amazon.com/Aduro-UNI-35BT-ADA-Bluetooth-Audio-Receiver/dp/B00KME1I32

How do I find out what type of bluetooth codex being used and the
quality for each of these connections? And is the transmitter, e.g.
iPhone, or the receiver, e.g. UE Boom, that determines the type of
bluetooth codex being used?



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[drmatt]

You have no clue which codec is being used. Bluetooth either works or it
doesn't.

The actual codec chosen will generally be the "best" that both devices
are compatible with, but you don't know and don't care because it's out
of your control.




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[ralphpnj]

Post by drmatt
You have no clue which codec is being used. Bluetooth either works or it
doesn't.
The actual codec chosen will generally be the "best" that both devices
are compatible with, but you don't know and don't care because it's out
of your control.

Thanks! That's real reassuring to know :)



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[d6jg]

Bluetooth is digital but it is compressed.

If you took a lossless source and sent it by Bluetooth it would be
re-encoded in a compressed format which in turn is de-coded and
decompressed by the target receiver. AirPlay however is not compressed.

Bluetooth is not audiophile quality. Arguably AirPlay is as it will
stream content at a decent bit rate but you can't beat a wired device
such as an SBT or a Pi.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
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*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
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*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
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[ralphpnj]

Post by d6jg
Bluetooth is digital but it is compressed.
If you took a lossless source and sent it by Bluetooth it would be
re-encoded in a compressed format which in turn is de-coded and
decompressed by the target receiver. AirPlay however is not compressed.
Bluetooth is not audiophile quality. Arguably AirPlay is as it will
stream content at a decent bit rate but you can't beat a wired device
such as an SBT or a Pi.

So I guess that means that the Pono player will never have bluetooth :(

On a more serious note: The fact that bluetooth is compressed helps to
explain why video streaming devices like Google Chromecast use Wi-Fi
instead of bluetooth.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[d6jg]

I am not sure that there is a video capability within Bluetooth anyway.
I may be wrong but I thought it data and audio only. By data I mean
relatively simple stuff like pictures and simple commands.



*Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets
*Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 ->
Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7
*Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755
-> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 ->
Wharfedale Modus Cubes
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[ralphpnj]

Post by d6jg
I am not sure that there is a video capability within Bluetooth anyway.
I may be wrong but I thought it data and audio only. By data I mean
relatively simple stuff like pictures and simple commands.

That sounds right since when I stream audio via bluetooth in my car all
the information from the file shows up on the in dash display - cover
art, song name, artist, album and timing. All simple jpg or text.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[drmatt]

Post by ralphpnj
That sounds right since when I stream audio via bluetooth in my car all
the information from the file shows up on the in dash display - cover
art, song name, artist, album and timing. All simple jpg or text.

This information is all explicitly encapsulated in the Bluetooth audio
streaming format.

As per above, bluetooth (even APT-X) is nowhere near audiophile, but
it'll do for convenience for most people. Bluetooth just doesn't support
the bitrates and low latency required for high quality audio, let alone
video streams.


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[ralphpnj]

Post by drmatt
This information is all explicitly encapsulated in the Bluetooth audio
streaming format.
As per above, bluetooth (even APT-X) is nowhere near audiophile, but
it'll do for convenience for most people. Bluetooth just doesn't support
the bitrates and low latency required for high quality audio, let alone
video streams.

What is striking about bluetooth audio is that it sounds quite good when
used in noncritical situations, such as in a car or outdoors. Since I
have a little bluetooth receiver perhaps one day I'll do some listening
tests (no they won't be double blind since they will only be for my own
education) and compare the sound of bluetooth to that of a Squeezebox
(Touch or Transporter depending on which stereo I use for the tests).

Bluetooth audio also goes a long way in proving the amazing flexibility
of digital audio. For example by using iPeng and turning my iPhone into
a squeezebox player I can stream from LMS to my phone and then send the
audio to one of my bluetooth speakers. All of it digital but at
different bit rates: flac from LMS to iPhone and then whatever bluetooth
codex/bitrate to the speaker. And it ends up sounding pretty damn good,
not "high end" audio but still pretty good for backyard listening.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[drmatt]

I didn't ever look up what the bitrate or encoding type is on Bluetooth
tbh, but yeah it's more than adequate for typical in car use or drunken
parties..




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[ralphpnj]

Post by drmatt
I didn't ever look up what the bitrate or encoding type is on Bluetooth
tbh, but yeah it's more than adequate for typical in car use or drunken
parties..

So when is someone going to come out with Bluetooth Bourbon, the only
bourbon shown to increase one's listening enjoyment when used in
conjunction with bluetooth audio?



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[Mnyb]

I found that bt works fine in my volvo v60 streaming spotify and spotify
is set to some medium quality setting ( high can break up on the road
with 4G/3G )



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