Does this sound somehow familiar?

[Julf]

'Wine tasting is bullshit'
(http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-heres-why-496098276)


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[Archimago]

Post by Julf
'Wine tasting is bullshit'
(http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-heres-why-496098276)

Wow.

OMG, pate vs. dog food? Now these are *serious* blind testers!
http://www.wine-economics.org/workingpapers/AAWE_WP36.pdf


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[maggior]

A very interesting read. Here's my favorite sentence:

"If that sentence made you yearn for a glass of classy red,
congratulations, there's a very real chance you're a pompous asshole."

I think he makes a very good point about perception - we engage ALL of
our senses with any stimulus. Eating or drinking is more than just
tasting, it's seeing, hearing, and touching too. Then there's the
emotional component.

I remember when I was a kid, my brother put together some wild
concoction in a glass and he told me to take a taste. It was dark in
color. I took a sip and had difficulty swallowing and felt my gag
reflect kick in...it tasted horrible. When I asked him what he put in
it, he said it was just water with blue food coloring. I said BS, what
did you put in it?!?!? Reluctantly, I took another sip and sure enough,
it tasted just like water. I was amazed and dumbfounded!! That
experience has always stuck with me.


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[Julf]

And then there is the classic BS: 'Pen & Teller: BS - The Truth About
Bottled Water'

(the best part starts at 2:00)


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[ralphpnj]

Post by Julf
And then there is the classic BS: 'Pen & Teller: BS - The Truth About
Bottled Water' http://youtu.be/JdvJOF-2mm0
(the best part starts at 2:00)

Excellent video!

Now we need a video of a wine tasting to complete the picture. My
favorite part of listening to my wine connoisseur friends is hearing
about all the different fruit tastes in the wine. Strawberries,
blackberries, cherries, etc. As far as I know wine is made from grapes,
fermented grapes. The rest, as they say, is pure BS.

Back to bottled water:

By the way, NYC tap water is very good but I strongly recommend that
before drinking NYC tap water you first try to find out if the building
where the faucet is located has a roof tank. You know those famous
iconic tanks located on so many NYC roof tops. I worked for over 30
years as a plumbing engineer in NYC and I inspected many a roof tank.
These tanks are often part of the domestic water system (many of the
tanks are for fire protection water only): the water is pumped into the
tank and then fed via gravity to the domestic water system, where it
comes out of the tap. I can tell you from first hand experience that you
don't want to drink any water that has been in a NYC roof tank because
those tanks contain lots of nasty things like dead pigeons, rats, cats,
birds, etc. So try to check the exact source before you drink it or, at
the very least, filter the water first.


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[garym]

I can tell you from first hand experience that you don't want to drink
any water that has been in a NYC roof tank because those tanks contain
lots of nasty things like dead pigeons, rats, cats, birds, etc. So try
to check the exact source before you drink it or, at the very least,
filter the water first.

damn Ralph. I've always loved drinking NYC tapwater on my frequent
visits to the city. And now that I think about it, it is often in places
that likely use roof tanks (old apts downtown or older hotels downtown).
Now I'll be thinking about dead creatures with every gulp. ;-)


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[Jeff52]

Post by garym
damn Ralph. I've always loved drinking NYC tapwater on my frequent
visits to the city. And now that I think about it, it is often in places
that likely use roof tanks (old apts downtown or older hotels downtown).
Now I'll be thinking about dead creatures with every gulp. ;-)

Actually dead spiders can be beneficial and impart a unique medicinal
quality to water.


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[Julf]

I am glad I live in Amsterdam, where the only concern is dogs (and deer)
peeing in the aquifer areas. But then again, people here like the Amstel
beer, and if you see what is floating down the Amstel river...


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[ralphpnj]

Post by Julf
I am glad I live in Amsterdam, where the only concern is dogs (and deer)
peeing in the aquifer areas. But then again, people here like the Amstel
beer, and if you see what is floating down the Amstel river...

I love Amsterdam! In 2007/2008 my wife and I lived in Den Haag and
visited Amsterdam on a regular basis. Have you been to the newly
reopened Rijksmuseum yet? And new herring season is now less than a
month away! By the way, what wine goes best with raw herring? (I know,
not wine, BEER!)


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[Julf]

Have you been to the newly reopened Rijksmuseum yet?

Not yet - the queues are still too long.

By the way, what wine goes best with raw herring? (I know, not wine,
BEER!)

No, no no - genever. The only justification for genever (the dutch
failed attempt at making gin)
is that it is perfect for washing down salty, partly fermented
herring... :)


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[ralphpnj]

Post by Julf
Not yet - the queues are still too long.
No, no no - genever. The only justification for genever (the dutch
failed attempt at making gin)
is that it is perfect for washing down salty, partly fermented
herring... :)

Let me know when you finally get to the Rijksmuseum, a little first hand
review would be greatly appreciated.

Cheap genever and expensive everything and anything good are the main
reasons why marijuana is legal in the Netherlands. I rather like the
herring mit ui, no broodje, great snack for a type 2 diabetic like
myself. Plus look how thin and fit most of the Dutch are - biking and
raw herring, a good way to stay thin.


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[Julf]

Post by ralphpnj
Let me know when you finally get to the Rijksmuseum, a little first hand
review would be greatly appreciated.

Will do!

Post by ralphpnj
look how thin and fit most of the Dutch are - biking and raw herring, a
good way to stay thin.

The Calvinist tradition of "you are not supposed to enjoy your food"
might have something to do with it too... :)


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[RonM]

Post by ralphpnj
Let me know when you finally get to the Rijksmuseum, a little first hand
review would be greatly appreciated.

Haven't been there yet, but my peak art museum experience was in
Amsterdam, at the Hermitage outpost. It was Matisse to Malevich, early
modern art. Spectacular, I could hardly pull myself away.

Listening now to the new She & Him. Pleasant background. Hope that
doesn't destroy my cred as an art connoisseur. Or wine appreciator.
Now off to the wine store to buy based on reviews in today's paper.

R


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[ralphpnj]

Post by RonM
Haven't been there yet, but my peak art museum experience was in
Amsterdam, at the Hermitage outpost. It was Matisse to Malevich, early
modern art. Spectacular, I could hardly pull myself away.
Listening now to the new She & Him. Pleasant background. Hope that
doesn't destroy my cred as an art connoisseur. Or wine appreciator.
Now off to the wine store to buy based on reviews in today's paper.
R

On my visits to Amsterdam back in 2007/2008 the main part of the
Rijksmuseum was closed for renovation but there was a small (about 10
rooms or so) part of the museum left open which featured a sort of
Rijksmuseum's greatest hits collection. So instead of lots of Rembrandt,
Vermeer, etc. plus lots of works by Rembrandt's and Vermeer's many
students/followers, there was only the best of Rembrandt, Vermeer, etc.
plus only the best of Rembrandt's and Vermeer's many students/followers,
in short, a limited but highly engaging collection which allowed one to
linger over the selection on hand instead of zooming through in a vain
effort to see as much as possible, as is the case with most museums with
massive collections. I kind of liked the smaller but well chosen
collection since one could all of it without feeling the need for speed.


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[ralphpnj]

Post by garym
damn Ralph. I've always loved drinking NYC tapwater on my frequent
visits to the city. And now that I think about it, it is often in places
that likely use roof tanks (old apts downtown or older hotels downtown).
Now I'll be thinking about dead creatures with every gulp. ;-)

Just so you don't completely freak out, the domestic water connection to
most roof tanks is from somewhere in the middle of the tank rather than
from the bottom (the bottom portion of the tank is the fire reserve
water) and most of the dead things end up sinking to the bottom at some
point although I can say that I saw plenty of dead pigeons floating at
the top of many tanks :)

Post by garym
Actually dead spiders can be beneficial and impart a unique medicinal
quality to water.

Let's see, your location is listed as "Bratislava", which is very
eastern European, which is in the heart of vampire country, which helps
to explain your love of spiders Jeff aka Renfield.

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[darrell]

Very amusing, but wine is very different to audio equipment, if only
because wine is an organic material, and not stable. It can get better
(or much worse!) with age, and there are different styles of wine -
different grape varieties/ripeness, leading to different
sugar/alcohol/tannin content, different methods of production (oak
versus stainless steel casks/vats, for example), etc, which can lead to
very different tastes with demonstrably different chemical make up.

It is certainly possible, through careless manufacture or careless
storage, to produce a truly horrible wine, and there probably is a
minimum production cost, below which corners are cut to the extent that
the wine will not be very nice. But beyond that, it is of course a
matter of taste (and smell, feel and appearance), and there is an awful
lot of bullshit and snobbery involved.

So wine is probably more comparable to different performance/recording
techniques in music, than the playback technology. A closer analogy with
hifi could be the wine glass - I find myself enjoying wine much more
when served in a nice crystal glass, but the difference I perceive
between this and a thick glass tumbler or a tea cup might be an
illusion, without an obvious way of blind testing! Of course, if the
drinking vessel is dirty, or made of a reactive plastic, which taints
the contents, that is a different matter, and could be compared with
listening to music on a very low quality audio system.

And I certainly disagree with the final sentence in the link contained
in the OP - the grape every time for me!


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[ralphpnj]

Post by darrell
Very amusing, but wine is very different to audio equipment, if only
because wine is an organic material, and not stable. It can get better
(or much worse!) with age, and there are different styles of wine -
different grape varieties/ripeness, leading to different
sugar/alcohol/tannin content, different methods of production (oak
versus stainless steel casks/vats, for example), etc, which can lead to
very different tastes with demonstrably different chemical make up.
It is certainly possible, through careless manufacture or careless
storage, to produce a truly horrible wine, and there probably is a
minimum production cost, below which corners are cut to the extent that
the wine will not be very nice. But beyond that, it is of course a
matter of taste (and smell, feel and appearance), and there is an awful
lot of bullshit and snobbery involved.
So wine is probably more comparable to different performance/recording
techniques in music, than the playback technology. A closer analogy with
hifi could be the wine glass - I find myself enjoying wine much more
when served in a nice crystal glass, but the difference I perceive
between this and a thick glass tumbler or a tea cup might be an
illusion, without an obvious way of blind testing! Of course, if the
drinking vessel is dirty, or made of a reactive plastic, which taints
the contents, that is a different matter, and could be compared with
listening to music on a very low quality audio system.
And I certainly disagree with the final sentence in the link contained
in the OP - the grape every time for me!

Good points. However there are more similarities with audio than you
think. For example different grapes could be analogous to different
types of amplification, i.e. solid state versus tube, and different vats
to different types of speakers, i.e. dynamic versus planar.

Also the type of glass used in wine drinking often has a strong
influence on way the smell of the wine reaches one's nose, which in turn
has a strong influence on the taste of the wine. In any case, I prefer
Styrofoam cups.


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[Jeff52]

In any case, I prefer Styrofoam cups.

Styrofoam cups only when quaffing the cheap crap sold in boxes or large
bottles, e.g. Carlo Rossi. A nice wine glass when drinking a fine Pinot
Noir or an Australian Chardonnay. I'm definitely not a wine snob, but do
enjoy a good wine, with or without a spider.


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[darrell]

Post by ralphpnj
Good points. However there are more similarities with audio than you
think. For example different grapes could be analogous to different
types of amplification, i.e. solid state versus tube, and different vats
to different types of speakers, i.e. dynamic versus planar.
Also the type of glass used in wine drinking often has a strong
influence on way the smell of the wine reaches one's nose, which in turn
has a strong influence on the taste of the wine. In any case, I prefer
Styrofoam cups.

Surely the wine is the CD you bring home from the shop, or the file you
download from a record company? And thinking about it more, there is no
real analogy with a hifi system, because wine is capable of being
directly experienced by the human senses, whereas the pits on a CD, or
the grooves of an LP, or the bits in a PCM file, require further
processing to be turned into a human-consumable form.

Good point about the glass - at least 4 of the 5 senses are in use with
wine, and it is, I think, impossible to separate them (sight could be
removed from the equation, but the colours in a glass of wine are a
minor sensory treat in themselves). Styrofoam cups? They seem to have
disappeared from Europe. I used to chew the edge...


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