Discussion:
Anyone used this... AudiophileOptimizer
Deaf Cat
2013-11-26 19:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Seems to get rather good results reading about it on various forums, but
not come across anyone using it with a slimdevices set up, just
wondered?
http://www.highend-audiopc.com/optimizer.html

cheers
DC


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aubuti
2013-11-26 21:03:58 UTC
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I didn't wade through the whole advert, but in my opinion there is no
reason to use this with a SB system. The boogeyman "jitter" is not going
to insert itself between the server running LMS and the Squeezebox that
is connected to the audio setup. That trip from the server to the SB is
made asynchronously over ethernet or wifi, for which timing errors (ie,
jitter) are not an issue, unless you include as "timing" the extreme
case of dropouts because the data can't be supplied fast enough.

If one connects their computer directly to their audio system then there
-might- be a rationale for such a product. Mind you, there are some who
contend that jitter is even an issue over TCP/IP networks, but I'll let
them explain to you how that supposedly works.


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Mnyb
2013-11-26 23:32:01 UTC
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Don’t bother , one of the main reasons for having a squeezebox is (as
abuti explained ) that it is completely server agnostic , whatever audio
goes on on the server does not matter .
It does not use it no soundcard drivers are in use kernel streaming etc
would only concern sound-cards connected to the computer . The
squeezebox plays the music from it's very large (>30s ) asynchronous
buffer , music that is dabled with by the servers audio system .

And it may matter very little even for a computer ,where it
theoretically could be a problem

http://archimago.blogspot.se/2013/03/measurements-hunt-for-load-induced.html

And some players .

http://archimago.blogspot.se/2013/05/measurements-bit-perfect-audiophile.html

Not exactly this product, but seems to more of the same .

It could potentially be other problem in computer setups ,what can be a
problem in many os is to keep the settings bitperfect ,sometimes they
change for no reason (or you install or update something ) not easy to
get consistent results .
Do you still have your squeezebox ?

The key is to setup a computer for bitperfect audio (no resampling etc )
unless you have specific needs .
However they can be lectrically noise , yet another reason to squeezebox
.



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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Deaf Cat
2013-11-27 22:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mnyb
Do you still have your squeezebox ?
Yes SB2 kitchen and a Touch lounge.

I found Soundcheck's TT improved things, (reducing workload of the
touch).

I don't see why reducing the actual work load of the pc running SS,
shouldn't also make a difference in sound repro.

Just wondering if anyone had tried the above or in fact just tried
reducing services, disabling background programs, on board sound, even
usb bus etc, tried XP win7 win8 comparisons for example.

Thinking of experimenting with with my SS pc, somewhat under the budget
of server2012!

Cheers
DC


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w3wilkes
2013-11-27 23:00:31 UTC
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Here's one way of describing why reducing tasks on the PC won't have any
effect on the music. The way Squeeze works is in effect copying a file
from one computer to another either over Ethernet or wifi. If the number
of tasks running at either end had a effect on the file our copies of
spreadsheets, word docs, databases or what have you would be affected by
the number of tasks running. It has no effect other than it might slow
the copy down just a smidgen. As long as the copy of the music file to
the player can happen faster than the player can play the file it will
always be identical regardless of the number of tasks running at either
end.



2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs
Rock Solid with LMS 7.7.3 and WHS 2011
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garym
2013-11-27 23:14:18 UTC
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Post by Deaf Cat
I don't see why reducing the actual work load of the pc running SS,
shouldn't also make a difference in sound repro.
But this is not how the feeding of a SB player from a server actually
works. The suggestion that reducing the workload of a PC running as LMS
server is equivalent to saying the following: If I can increase the
efficiency of a fueling station on the freeway, my automobile will work
better when I'm 50 miles down the road. Of course this makes no sense.
Once I've filled up my fuel tank at the station, the station has no
affect on my automobile when I'm down the road.

As noted, the only issue one could have between a server and the SB
player is if the server can't fill the buffer with new 0s/1s faster than
the SB is emptying this buffer (i.e., playing the music).

(This said, if one is using the SOUNDCARD in a PC to play music, then it
is at least theoretically possible hat doing things to that PC can
affect the playback of the music. But of course the entire engineering
and design of the Squeezebox player is to remove the factor of the PC
from the playback on the player.)



*Location 1:* VortexBox (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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Mnyb
2013-11-28 05:23:58 UTC
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Post by garym
But this is not how the feeding of a SB player from a server actually
works. The suggestion that reducing the workload of a PC running as LMS
If I can increase the efficiency of a fueling station on the freeway, my
automobile will work better when I'm 50 miles down the road. Of course
this makes no sense. Once I've filled up my fuel tank at the station,
the station has no affect on my automobile when I'm down the road.
As noted, the only issue one could have between a server and the SB
player is if the server can't fill the buffer with new 0s/1s faster than
the SB is emptying this buffer (i.e., playing the music).
(This said, if one is using the SOUNDCARD in a PC to play music, then it
is at least theoretically possible that doing things to that PC can
affect the playback of the music. But of course the entire engineering
and design of the Squeezebox player is to remove the factor of the PC
from the playback on the player.)
Thanks Gary , you explains things better .

Deaf Cat can actually try this , play a song for a couple of minute now
pull out the Ethernet cable .
Now listen to the buffer without any computer influence .

Yes LMS server basically transfer the file to the player for playback (
Oversimplified ).
As the PC does do not do the playback it can't influence the sound
,when using a squeezebox .

In this case there simply is no plausible mechanism where the server can
influence the sound .
If you used an onboard soundcard I can think of several of them ,but
they to can be mitigated by far simpler (and free) means than this
software .

A file transferred over the whole Internet is also delivered perfectly .
These communication protocols actually works .
One of the things computers do really well is copy stuff they do perfect
copies all day .

To imply that's the data in the Squuezebox buffer would somehow been
changed basically implies that the computer has lost this basic ability
. Such a computer is milliseconds from crashing completely .

And the data do arrive in squirts and lumps all the time not in real
time (usually at far greater speed than needed if your network is ok )
TCP/IP works that way it s called ip packets and the error correction
for those are extremely good . Remember the Internet works ! You can
download a complete OS over the net without a single error .

This is asynchrounus to . Asynchronous actually means ( among many
things ) that the data is not timed in any way meaningfull to the data
.

Think of it this way . If you filled the squeezebox buffer with 30
seconds of the same file/song but by two different means ?
Could you foresically tell the difference if you by some magic "freezed"
the squeezebox copied the buffers and compared them ?
I think NSA would fail on this task . The data is just there it has no
history built in .

Also in genral this software has all the tell tales of a scam beware .

It is said that progressive people should keep an open mind , this is
all and well if you also apply common sense and some sound scepticism .

For every correct idea there is also endless incorrect ideas that compte
with it !

Thats why the idea that you should weigh " both sides " equally is
flawed the good one is simply swamped by the crackpots , most ideas
humanity ever had where/is wrong .

Just be a bit critical and demand evidence .

In the case of this software it would be very easy to test so no debate
is needed .

1. Do traditional audio measurement .

2. Do an audio diffmaker test .

If 1 or 2 sugest any difference and it's big enough to sugest it would
possible to hear, do a listening test ( abx of course ) to try to
quantify if it's audiable and what the difference is .

If this is performed it does not matter what anyone on a forum thinks
either it works or it don't .
No subjective anecdote from either acolytes or sceptical people would
have the power to change facts .

For some reason none of the aviable "magic audiophile software" vendors
will do this , they fill there websites with anecdotes instead . Despite
that it is possible to prove their products they somehow always avoid
this very powerfull product verification ?

I would,suggests that Archimago has the equipment and the vervital to
test this , but I doubt he will .
He has done similar products, so one more ?.
And by the reason I jut gave that there are endless flawed ideas for
every correct one it would be endless work to follow every weird audio
idea out there .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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garym
2013-11-28 14:31:19 UTC
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Post by Mnyb
For some reason none of the aviable "magic audiophile software" vendors
will do this , they fill there websites with anecdotes instead . Despite
that it is possible to prove their products they somehow always avoid
this very powerfull product verification ?
So true. Double blind tests could solve a lot of issues and answer a lot
of questions regarding differences (as they do every day in the worlds
of medicine, science, and engineering). But they'd be out of business if
they did this. To paraphrase P.T. Barnum (??), "There's a sucker born
every minute" and there are magical audio solution sellers waiting in
line to attract them as customers.



*Location 1:* VortexBox (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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Deaf Cat
2013-11-28 22:26:51 UTC
Permalink
I guess from all the arguments against tweeking the source pc, all of
your answers are 'no you have not tried any tweeking'...
or if you have it had made no difference.
Many thanks for you time and explanations.
Cheers
DC


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Mnyb
2013-11-29 05:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by garym
So true. Double blind tests could solve a lot of issues and answer a lot
of questions regarding differences (as they do every day in the worlds
of medicine, science, and engineering). But they'd be out of business if
they did this. To paraphrase P.T. Barnum (??), "There's a sucker born
every minute" and there are magical audio solution sellers waiting in
line to attract them as customers.
In this case a dbt would have been the last effort in the unlikely event
something happened .

A simple measurement would have done it .

Let's not loose focus on the fact that this kind of app can't affect
what stored in the player buffer off a squeezebox .

And no the data is not homeopathic it can't remember it's previus
treatment ;)

But for more grins and giggles , people are trying to tweak everything
with minimum buffers and gets drop outs ? :P
( see our software player treads, or the TT treads ) this is not the
same buffer admittedly .
This actually gives another mechanism where tweaking can work , break
it ! If it's sounds different you declare that better .
But this would not benthencase here innthe context of using a squeezebox
.



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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toby10
2013-11-29 10:31:40 UTC
Permalink
The believers can test this concept themselves by booting up in Safe
mode and killing any remaining unnecessary running services.
Just need them to report back. :)


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reinholdk
2013-11-29 11:58:06 UTC
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Post by toby10
The believers can test this concept themselves by booting up in Safe
mode and killing any remaining unnecessary running services.
Just need them to report back. :)
Happened just recently. :) see here
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?100366-LMS-and-win-8-1-safe-mode&p=762442&viewfull=1#post762442


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toby10
2013-11-29 16:05:32 UTC
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Post by reinholdk
Happened just recently. :) see here
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?100366-LMS-and-win-8-1-safe-mode&p=762442&viewfull=1#post762442
Yup, read it when it was posted. Same hocus pocus voodoo applies. :)


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Archimago
2013-12-06 04:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mnyb
I would,suggests that Archimago has the equipment and the vervital to
test this , but I doubt he will .
He has done similar products, so one more ?.
And by the reason I jut gave that there are endless flawed ideas for
every correct one it would be endless work to follow every weird audio
idea out there .
Yeah... As per this post back in April:
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.html

Using a decent DAC with an asynchronous USB interface device (CM6631A -
same interface as the newer Schiit DAC's) , I was unable to measure a
significant difference between Mac (OS X) vs. Windows 8 computer. As
such, I cannot imagine what would lead to a significant difference if I
were to install this software but running Windows Server 2012 on the
same hardware as my Win8 computer!

Getting a full version of Server 2012 isn't cheap and it's not exactly
the kind of OS optimized for multimedia applications!



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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Mnyb
2013-12-06 04:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Archimago
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.html
Using a decent DAC with an asynchronous USB interface device (CM6631A -
same interface as the newer Schiit DAC's) , I was unable to measure a
significant difference between Mac (OS X) vs. Windows 8 computer. As
such, I cannot imagine what would lead to a significant difference if I
were to install this software but running Windows Server 2012 on the
same hardware as my Win8 computer!
Getting a full version of Server 2012 isn't cheap and it's not exactly
the kind of OS optimized for multimedia applications!
Good !

But for the sake of discussion , if you tested this program and got the
usuall null result . There would be next program and the one after that
and so forth.
That test with completely different OS and computers still outputting
the exact same thing is a good indicator of how any off those program's
would perform existing or future ones.

Beyond getting quality hardware if you are using and internal soundcard
and setting the PC for bitperfect audio . There is not much you can do ,
and with USB just make sure things are bitperfect .



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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Archimago
2013-12-08 09:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mnyb
Good !
But for the sake of discussion , if you tested this program and got the
usuall null result . There would be next program and the one after that
and so forth.
That test with completely different OS and computers still outputting
the exact same thing is a good indicator of how any off those program's
would perform existing or future ones.
Beyond getting quality hardware if you are using and internal soundcard
and setting the PC for bitperfect audio . There is not much you can do ,
and with USB just make sure things are bitperfect .
In general, yes, you're correct.

Unless there's a reasonable explanation why things should sound
different, I really think there's no point chasing these software
optimization tweaks if the interface is known to be bit-perfect. As far
as I can tell, software players are not able to substantially affect
jitter (have not seen any objective results to show this despite claims
from questionable sources). Shutting down processes / lowering CPU
utilization may reduce noise from the computer so that could be a good
thing. However, it's better to find a hardware solution or shield the
audio devices from the computer, fix ground loops, etc. if this is a
problem!

Ironically, extreme "audiophile" music players like JPlay tend to lower
the use of data buffers leading to higher CPU load thus worsening the
potential for creating more interference. Maybe some people like this
and happily pay for the "privilege" :confused:...



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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Julf
2013-11-27 11:07:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deaf Cat
Seems to get rather good results reading about it on various forums
So do the CD marker pens, magic crystals and $5000 ethernet cables. :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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jimbobvfr400
2013-11-27 11:12:53 UTC
Permalink
For me I always think if it takes a good 5 minutes of reading to even
work out what the product is (it is some sort of software isn't it?)
then that's a pretty good indication to call B.S.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4




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Archimago
2013-11-27 16:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Wow, looks like you need to also buy a copy of Windows Server 2012 to
get this to work (assuming you're not running it already).



Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
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garym
2013-11-28 22:35:34 UTC
Permalink
As folks have explained, given the way squeezeboxes work, there is no
possibility that these tweaks can affect the sound quality from a SB
player. It is not a matter of trial and error or empirical testing or
magic. The engineering of the SB player and server makes any effect of
the tweaks you reference impossible.

So yes, I haven't personally tested. I haven't tested whether the earth
orbits the sun lately either. ;-)



*Location 1:* VortexBox (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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w3wilkes
2013-11-29 04:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Just for grins and giggles, even though I would hope you all know which
camp I'm in from other posts regarding whether these type tweaks can
have a effect on the music...

The test of disconnecting the SB player from the server doesn't really
prove that tweaking the server can't affect the sound. The reason is
that the data in the buffer of the SB player had already been "damaged"
by the server before it was delivered to the SB player. just like the
data in this post was "damaged" by my PC before I hit the submit button.
Hey, how did that "j" starting the last sentence get changed to lower
case?? ;-) It wouldn't have happened if I'd cut down on the 100+
processes running on my PC!



2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs
Rock Solid with LMS 7.7.3 and WHS 2011
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SBGK
2013-12-08 09:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deaf Cat
Hi,
Seems to get rather good results reading about it on various forums, but
not come across anyone using it with a slimdevices set up, just
wondered?
http://www.highend-audiopc.com/optimizer.html
cheers
DC
of course it makes a difference, does win 7 sound the same as win 8 ?
You can try altering the priority of the logitech server program on your
pc eg high to low, if you can't hear any difference then optimisations
may not help, otherwise learn to think for yourself and try things out
instead of looking for opinions from people with a bits are bits agenda.



Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/
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Julf
2013-12-08 11:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by SBGK
of course it makes a difference
Looking forward to some evidence.
Post by SBGK
does win 7 sound the same as win 8?
Probably. Do you have evidence to the countrary?
Post by SBGK
You can try altering the priority of the logitech server program on your
pc eg high to low, if you can't hear any difference then optimisations
may not help
Exactly. Just make sure you do your listening in ways that try to remove
perceptive and cognitive bias - listen with your ears, not your eyes or
expectations.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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Deaf Cat
2013-12-08 20:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by SBGK
of course it makes a difference, does win 7 sound the same as win 8 ?
You can try altering the priority of the logitech server program on your
pc eg high to low, if you can't hear any difference then optimisations
may not help, otherwise learn to think for yourself and try things out
instead of looking for opinions from people with a bits are bits agenda.
My query was if an optimization program written for JPlay users, would
work for SB users?
Jplay and SB setups work in quite a different way I am guessing.

I upgraded from win7 to win8 as it was £25, and was not expecting the
change in sound! Quite pleasantly surprised :-)

I don't know, but XP is simple and stable, do you know if this has been
AB with win8?

(link at the bottom of your post noted, will have a read soon)

Cheers
DC


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bonze
2013-12-09 20:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deaf Cat
My query was if an optimization program written for JPlay users, would
work for SB users?
Jplay and SB setups work in quite a different way I am guessing.
I upgraded from win7 to win8 as it was £25, and was not expecting the
change in sound! Quite pleasantly surprised :-)
I don't know, but XP is simple and stable, do you know if this has been
AB with win8?
(link at the bottom of your post noted, will have a read soon)
Cheers
DCOdd, all the useful advice above and the only post you reply to is the
one crayoned by the forum troll....



LMS Version: 7.8
TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011
2x Touch, 3x SB3
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Wombat
2013-12-09 23:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deaf Cat
Odd, all the useful advice above and the only post you reply to is the
one crayoned by the forum troll....
Whenever the "J" magic comes into the game it becomes odd. This software
must be that good even just downloading the installer to your HD gives
better sound before you install it. Of course only if your system is
resolving enough!!



Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA
monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers
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Mnyb
2013-12-10 00:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deaf Cat
Odd, all the useful advice above and the only post you reply to is the
one crayoned by the forum troll....
+1
Also avoiding Archimagos very definitive experiment where he can show
that typically a -DAC has has identical analog output- regardless of OS
feeding it and not even the same hardware .
That is not even an opinion it's a fact .

And this on an interface that are more likely to have problems than a
squeezebox . Direct computer connection could be a problem at least in
theory .

The fact that squeezeboxes does not work this way eludes some completely
, there simply is no mechanism in place that could cause this or is it
quatum physics "spooky interaction at a distance" .
The actuall output from the squeezebox would remain unchanged .

We can have opinions on -how differences sounds like when there is a
difference- , if there is no difference it cant sound different :) is
that so very hard ?

That very human instinct some is afflicted with, people don't just want
to believe they seems to need to believe ?

The benefit off actually having this discussion is other people reading
this tread especially the fact that a forum has large swarm of lurkers
that just passively reads but don’t participate . Some of the fence
sitters there may be open reasonable arguments if they are undecided or
have not thought much of these things.

I think the Audio hobby could be great again if some sanity was restored
to it . For every woo woo person the audio press or cult manufacturers
attract they probably scare away 100 times more people .
Who want to be associated with people just as confused as homoeopaths or
dowsers ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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ralphpnj
2013-12-10 00:34:07 UTC
Permalink
...I think the Audio hobby could be great again if some sanity was
restored to it . For every woo woo person the audio press or cult
manufacturers attract they probably scare away 100 times more people
....
There actually is some sanity in the audio hobby world: the members over
at the Head-Fi (www.head-fi.org) forums manage to mix audiophile voodoo
with good science. The results are often quite surprising and
entertaining, to say the least.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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garym
2013-12-10 02:24:13 UTC
Permalink
The thing I just can't get over is how some folks refuse to learn *how*
a squeezebox works. I can at least agree that there is a *possibility*
that something weird can be going on inside a computer/OS that can
affect the sound output IF SUCH OUTPUT IF FED VIA THE COMPUTER'S SOUND
CARD. But we know that is not how Squeezeboxes work. The bits are fed
(bit perfect as testing repeatedly demonstrates) via an asynchronous
method to the buffer of the Squeezebox. So if these perfect bits arrive
fast enough to keep the Squeezebox buffer filled, there is zero
possibility that the computer feeding the bits can affect the sound
quality. If the buffer doesn't stay filled, one has dropouts or
rebuffering, not simply "less good sound".

OK, so one can posit some sort of odd electronic wave traveling down the
ethernet cable that interacts with the Squeezebox. Easy enough to
remove that in a test (use WIFI). Or do the "pull the ethernet cable"
and listen to SB player play out the last of the buffer. No connection
back to computer, just pure bits in the SB buffer. Why is this so hard
to understand.

And of course Jplay itself is a complete scam. See here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=92856&hl=jplay



*Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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ralphpnj
2013-12-09 14:50:53 UTC
Permalink
....people with a bits are bits agenda.
Don't you mean "bits are coins agenda"?



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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Quad
2014-03-05 12:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deaf Cat
Hi,
Seems to get rather good results reading about it on various forums, but
not come across anyone using it with a slimdevices set up, just
wondered?
http://www.highend-audiopc.com/optimizer.html
cheers
DC
Hi Deaf Cat

IMHO it is well worth a try. My vanilla LMS is running on a Synology
NAS. For playback I recently turned an older notebook into a dedicated
music player. Just install Windows Server 2012 R2 Evaluation in core
mode, run AudiophileOptimizer and launch Squeezeplay with your favourite
output. To me it sounds clearly better than Windows 8 without any
adjustments.

Within AudiophileOptimizer you can choose between different "Sound
Signatures" and "Digital Filters". There is also the possibility to
compare them to the standard Windows settings. This is a good way to
experience differences you can achieve with OS tuning. Of course all the
modes are still bit perfect...

Oupps, I might have just stirred up a hornet's nest... Sting me, I
really need that. :-)

Cheers



Living Room: Squeezelite -> WDM-KS/HDMI -> NAD M51 (Rowen Swiss Edition)
-> Rowen Absolute MONO -> Quad 22L
Sleeping Room: Radio
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Deaf Cat
2014-03-05 12:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Quad,

I have actually been experimenting with disabling different services
etc, on win8, the most recent was to disable the paging file :-o pc
is still going and sounding better than before :-) fingers crossed it
keeps going as I rather like it.
From these experiments I can only assume that with all the work gone
into the optimizer it would work rather well, especially on server12 as
I understand server12 is minimal compared to win8, and minimal seems to
work rather well, from the small amount of experimentation I have done.

However, server12 is a bit out of my budget, not even going to try it on
trial as I'm guessing I will like and then have difficulty going back to
win8.. :-(

Thanks for letting me know as I was unsure with all the previous
comments above it would affect things when using LMS, from my
experimentation I would guess it would work well!

Enjoy your music :-)

Cheers
dc


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ralphpnj
2014-03-05 12:40:30 UTC
Permalink
And if you are using wi-fi to stream to your Squeezeboxes then don't
forget to pick up some Audiophile Air in Can:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101032-Audiophile-Buzzwords-Fads-Crazes-Hypes-and-other-Quantum-Matters&p=772814&viewfull=1#post772814

You will thank me.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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Deaf Cat
2014-03-05 12:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ralphpnj
And if you are using wi-fi to stream to your Squeezeboxes then don't
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101032-Audiophile-Buzzwords-Fads-Crazes-Hypes-and-other-Quantum-Matters&p=772814&viewfull=1#post772814
You will thank me.
:cool: :D


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Julf
2014-03-05 13:48:18 UTC
Permalink
To me it sounds clearly better than Windows 8 without any adjustments.
And your auditory memory is long enough to be able to make a reliable
comparision?

What aspect of the audio data that the computer sends out to the network
do you think can be affected by any OS tuning as long as you don't get
dropouts from buffer underflow?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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bonze
2014-03-05 14:24:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quad
IMHO it is well worth a try. My vanilla LMS is running on a Synology
NAS. For playback I recently turned an older notebook into a dedicated
music player. Just install Windows Server 2012 R2 Evaluation in core
mode, run AudiophileOptimizer and launch Squeezeplay with your favourite
output. To me it sounds clearly better than Windows 8 without any
adjustments.
So you are running Squeezeplay on a PC with AudiophileSnakeOil as a
test?

Baffling......



LMS Version: 7.8
TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011
2x Touch, 3x SB3
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Mnyb
2014-03-05 14:54:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julf
And your auditory memory is long enough to be able to make a reliable
comparision?
What aspect of the audio data that the computer sends out to the network
do you think can be affected by any OS tuning as long as you don't get
dropouts from buffer underflow?
He using Squeezeplay ON that computer ...
Post by Julf
So you are running Squeezeplay on a PC with AudiophileSnakeOil as a
test?
Baffling......
Deaf Cat is probably using a Squeezebox ?

There is a conceptual difference using a player on the PC/Server and
using a real hardware squeezebox or wandboard or other network client .

So Deaf Cat and Quad are comparing Apples and Oranges , probably
imaginary ones .

Caveat with weird enough settings or completely faulty ones you migth
get the PC based player to actually sound -different- ie you broke it



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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Julf
2014-03-05 14:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mnyb
He using Squeezeplay ON that computer ...
Ah! Thanks!



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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bonze
2014-03-05 15:08:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mnyb
Deaf Cat is probably using a Squeezebox ?
There is a conceptual difference using a player on the PC/Server and
using a real hardware squeezebox or wandboard or other network client .
So Deaf Cat and Quad are comparing Apples and Oranges , probably
imaginary ones .
Indeed.
And both seemingly misunderstanding how a Squeezebox setup actually
works.



LMS Version: 7.8
TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011
2x Touch, 3x SB3
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aubuti
2014-03-05 18:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by bonze
And both seemingly misunderstanding how a Squeezebox setup actually
works.
Or even grokked the more general difference between a network music
_server_ (eg, LMS) and a network music _player_ (eg, Squeezeplay on a
laptop)....


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Quad
2014-03-05 18:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by aubuti
Or even grokked the more general difference between a network music
_server_ (eg, LMS) and a network music _player_ (eg, Squeezeplay on a
laptop)....
The initial post asked about any experience with that tool in a
slimdevices setup. That's what I answered to by giving some details in
which context my experience took place. What's wrong with that?

But of course fair reactions were beyond hope. :-)



Living Room: Squeezelite -> WDM-KS/HDMI -> NAD M51 (Rowen Swiss Edition)
-> Rowen Absolute MONO -> Quad 22L
Sleeping Room: Radio
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ralphpnj
2014-03-05 18:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quad
But of course fair reactions were beyond hope. :-)
I believe that you have that just a little wrong. The statement should
read:

But of course reactions based on a solid understanding of the basics of
how digital audio works instead of magic audiophile pixie dust were to
be expected.

The great thing about online forums about audio, as opposed to
publications about audio, is that other forum members get to call BS on
all your misguided beliefs. So either deal with it and if not, well you
can always write letters to the various high end audio publications
telling them how great their magic pixie dust works.

Now does the AudiophileOptimizer work with DSD files because if not it's
worthless.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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darrenyeats
2014-03-05 19:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Guys, you are coming across like some vigilantes patrolling the forum
with burning torches, ready to beat up anyone who says anything
foo-like.

It doesn't mean I am into foo - I'm not. But let's drink some decaf and
live and let live a bit. Otherwise you'll all end up just agreeing with
each other all day and it will be a much smaller and more boring forum.

IMHO, Darren



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

SB Touch
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ralphpnj
2014-03-05 19:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by darrenyeats
Guys, you are coming across like some vigilantes patrolling the forum
with burning torches, ready to beat up anyone who says anything
foo-like.
It doesn't mean I am into foo - I'm not. But let's drink some decaf and
live and let live a bit. Otherwise the people left here will just be
agreeing with each other all day and it will be a much smaller and more
boring forum.
IMHO, Darren!
PS: I'm not saying don't give an opinion - I appreciate all view points!
The only reason I went into a rant is that I just find it absolutely
amazing that people who propose and believe things that can be proven to
be untrue using modern science, as in the case of almost every
audiophile myth, claim that the people who disagree with them are being
close minded! So if I claim that 2+2=5 then anyone who doesn't agree
with me or even doubts me is being closed minded.

Now back to the usual audiophile magical thinking.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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kidstypike
2014-03-05 21:21:50 UTC
Permalink
...2+2=5
Close enough for me ;)



kidstypike
1xSB3 - 1xBoom - 1x(Squeezebox) Radio - 2xTouch
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ralphpnj
2014-03-05 21:25:51 UTC
Permalink
close enough for me ;)
lol!



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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Wombat
2014-03-05 23:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by darrenyeats
Guys, you are coming across like some vigilantes patrolling the forum
with burning torches, ready to beat up anyone who says anything
foo-like.
Luckily here are several very Close-Minded people :)
I may recomend you Computeraudiophile.com when you feel more comfortable
with Wide-Open-Minded drivel.



Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA
monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers
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RonM
2014-03-05 23:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ralphpnj
The great thing about online forums about audio, as opposed to
publications about audio, is that other forum members get to call BS on
all your misguided beliefs . . .
Shouldn't that be OUR misguided beliefs?

Glass houses, stones, and all that.

R



LMS on a dedicated music server (FitPC2)
Transporter (ethernet) - main music listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm
speakers
Duet (wifi) - home theatre 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (wifi) - workspace
Boom 2 (wifi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (wifi) - home office
Touch x 2 - awaiting deployment
UE Radio - awaiting deployment
Control - 2 Controllers (main listening, home theatre, all others),
Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2), Music2Touch (BB Playbook)
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ralphpnj
2014-03-06 00:00:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonM
Shouldn't that be OUR misguided beliefs?
Glass houses, stones, and all that.
R
Quite right. I'm often told that I'm completely full of BS, even when it
comes to audio :)



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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Julf
2014-03-06 10:21:32 UTC
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Post by RonM
Shouldn't that be OUR misguided beliefs?
Sure, if you consider belief in evidence a misguided belief. :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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aubuti
2014-03-05 21:12:12 UTC
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Post by Quad
The initial post asked about any experience with that tool in a
slimdevices setup. That's what I answered to by giving some details in
which context my experience took place. What's wrong with that?
But of course fair reactions were beyond hope. :-)
Nothing's "wrong" with that, just not particularly germane when it's
obvious from subsequent posts that Deaf Cat was talking about using
Audiophile Optimizer to tweak a server computer that is streaming to
physical Squeezeboxes (SB2 and a Touch). I suppose you should get credit
for presenting the very different use case of laptop as network player,
a case in which the AO software could actually make a conceivable
difference.


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Quad
2014-03-05 21:54:32 UTC
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Post by aubuti
Nothing's "wrong" with that, just not particularly germane when it's
obvious from subsequent posts that Deaf Cat was talking about using
Audiophile Optimizer to tweak a server computer that is streaming to
physical Squeezeboxes (SB2 and a Touch). I suppose you should get credit
for presenting the very different use case of laptop as network player,
a case in which the AO software could actually make a conceivable
difference.
Actually I searched the forum for the term AudiophileOptimizer, saw the
thread and the usual answers and decided to reply directly to the
original post. Maybe I should have read the whole thread more carefully.



Living Room: Squeezelite -> WDM-KS/HDMI -> NAD M51 (Rowen Swiss Edition)
-> Rowen Absolute MONO -> Quad 22L
Sleeping Room: Radio
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