[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting reseach paper

[Julf]

'\"On the reception and detection of pseudo-profound bullshit\"'
(http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[induna]

That was a fun read. Thanks.


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[arnyk]

Post by Julf
'\"On the reception and detection of pseudo-profound bullshit\"'
(http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf)

Why are we sure that the paper itself is not an example of this problem?


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[Julf]

Post by arnyk
Why are we sure that the paper itself is not an example of this problem?

A case of circular irony?



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[arnyk]

Post by Julf
A case of circular irony?

Could be that, could be me punching my skptic's card.

Good read, regardless.


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[RonM]

I loved it! And I noted that it in fact comes from Canada. Not that
we're immune to bullshit, but I'd like to think that our stoic
northern-ness leads us to be perhaps less vulnerable than others.

Besides, it's written by psychologists, a fraternity to which I belong,
so it must be true.

R.



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[arnyk]

Post by RonM
I loved it! And I noted that it in fact comes from Canada. Not that
we're immune to bullshit, but I'd like to think that our stoic
northern-ness leads us to be perhaps less vulnerable than others.
Besides, it's written by psychologists, a fraternity to which I belong,
so it must be true.

I suspect that true believers in audio woo are uniformly distributed. I
know that my profession - engineers is highly afflicted, and some of the
worst audio golden ears I have encountered were MDs and Shrinks.


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[ralphpnj]

Post by arnyk
Why are we sure that the paper itself is not an example of this problem?

I could not agree more since attempting to read the entire paper just
gave me a terrible headache. So while the paper may or may not be an
example of pseudo-profound bullshit, it is most definitely a very fine
example of pseudo-academic bullshit.



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
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[dsdreamer]

Post by ralphpnj
I could not agree more since attempting to read the entire paper just
gave me a terrible headache. So while the paper may or may not be an
example of pseudo-profound bullshit, it is most definitely a very fine
example of pseudo-academic bullshit.

Just because a long, detailed paper may give the reader fatigue or a
headache is not an indication that it lacks academic rigor, potentially
quite the opposite.

On the other hand, the authors' concluding sentence is quite humorously

Post by ralphpnj
That people vary in their receptivity toward bullshit is perhaps less
surprising than the fact that psychological scientists have heretofore
neglected this issue. Accordingly, although this manuscript may not be
truly profound, it is indeed meaningful.

The claim that because an area of study is novel, it is necessarily
meaningful is also a -non sequitur-, and I'm calling bullshit on that
one! There are many things that have not been studied and can be left
unstudied without any loss to the body of human knowledge or wisdom. I
would further suggest that the particular area of Bullshit Receptivity
is -a priori- not sufficiently distinct from other psychological studies
of gullibility for which the literature is abundant.

I also find some of their methodology flawed: E.g., given a set of
pseudo-profound bullshit statements of equal, but zero merit, it would
be a brave soul who rated them all as "Not at all profound." The human
tendency to rate everything on a curve, played a role here, along with
the reasonable assumption that the prompt for the questions "We are
interested in how people experience the profound." was probably sincere,
given the academic setting. That deceitful introductory rubric to Study
1 was a pure gullibility test, and the average response of 2.6 on that
study measured the subjects' receptivity to the set-up, and general
trust of academic institutions more than it did to the nonsense the
followed.

My summary: quite entertaining, but not useful.



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[ralphpnj]

Post by dsdreamer
Just because a long, detailed paper may give the reader fatigue or a
headache is not an indication that it lacks academic rigor, potentially
quite the opposite.
On the other hand, the authors' concluding sentence is quite humorously
The claim that because an area of study is novel, it is necessarily
meaningful is also a -non sequitur-, and I'm calling bullshit on that
one! There are many things that have not been studied and can be left
unstudied without any loss to the body of human knowledge or wisdom. I
would further suggest that the particular area of Bullshit Receptivity
is -a priori- not sufficiently distinct from other psychological studies
of gullibility for which the literature is abundant.
I also find some of their methodology flawed: E.g., given a set of
pseudo-profound bullshit statements of equal, but zero merit, it would
be a brave soul who rated them all as "Not at all profound." The human
tendency to rate everything on a curve, played a role here, along with
the reasonable assumption that the prompt for the questions "We are
interested in how people experience the profound." was probably sincere,
given the academic setting. That deceitful introductory rubric to Study
1 was a pure gullibility test, and the average response of 2.6 on that
study measured the subjects' receptivity to the set-up, and general
trust of academic institutions more than it did to the nonsense the
followed.
My summary: quite entertaining, but not useful.

Spoken little a true academic!

(Lots of headache inducing big words and long sentences with little real
meaning. However the paper and your response does bring to mind those
infamous words that many students live by: Lots of bullshit, piled high
and deep!)



Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. &
sub
Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1
& Energy sub
Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos
'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/)
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[dsdreamer]

Post by ralphpnj
Spoken little a true academic!
(Lots of headache inducing big words and long sentences with little real
meaning. However the paper and your response does bring to mind those
infamous words that many students live by: Lots of bullshit, piled high
and deep!)

-That the paper gave one forum member a headache doesn't mean it was bad
academically.

The authors claim in their closing sentence that their subject matter is
meaningful because it is new. I don't think that follows. There are
plenty of things that have been left unstudied for good reason. Also, I
feel that the topic of "Bullshit receptivity" is not as new as they say
it is, since it is just another form of deception, which has been
studied a lot.

It think that the way they introduced the test to the volunteers in
Study 1 was itself deceitful and created a false expectation that the
statements that the would have to rank were going to be profound to some
degree. So, rather than measuring the responses to the BS statements,
they ended up measuring whether the subjects believed what they were
told going in, which was more of a gullibility test than anything else.
I think many of us would fall for a similar set-up, especially given the
context that this survey was taking place in an academic institution
where certain amount of trust is a reasonable expectation. Given all of
this, we shouldn't be too surprised that the average score on the
meaningless statements was 2.6.

It was quite fun to read this paper, but I personally doubt its
usefulness.-

Better? I think the meaning of the two versions is about the same. If my
first version was a bit dense, keep in mind I had just spent an hour
reading that stuff and my mind was tuned to that style of writing.



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[arnyk]

Post by dsdreamer
My summary: quite entertaining, but not useful.

I find your summary to be entertaining and useful because it promotes
alternative thought.

I find the paper to be both entertaining and useful because may make
people aware of what may be a dominant trend in contemporary life.

We can still be friends, right? ;-)


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[dsdreamer]

Post by arnyk
I find your summary to be entertaining and useful because it promotes
alternative thought.
I find the paper to be both entertaining and useful because may make
people aware of what may be a dominant trend in contemporary life.
We can still be friends, right? ;-)

Good points. Thank you. :-)



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[Fizbin]

You guys have WAY too much time on your hands.


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[SBGK]

Post by Fizbin
You guys have WAY too much time on your hands.

Shhh, don't tell them that.



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[Archimago]

Post by SBGK
Shhh, don't tell them that.

It looks like folks just stopped experimenting with OS optimizations,
playback software and silver cables awhile back... More time to consider
other academic pursuits!

:rolleyes:



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[Julf]

Post by Archimago
It looks like folks just stopped experimenting with OS optimizations,
playback software and silver cables awhile back... More time to consider
other academic pursuits!

Fortunately there is always the 'New Age Bullshit Generator'
(http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/) - clearly the source of marketing
material for a lot of audiophile products.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Julf]

Post by Fizbin
You guys have WAY too much time on your hands.

If you are interested in understanding high-end audio, studying how and
why some people have a need to believe pseudoscience, voodoo and BS is a
much better use of your time than fiddling around with silver cables and
superfluous loop instructions. :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[bonze]

Post by Julf
If you are interested in understanding high-end audio, studying how and
why some people have a need to believe pseudoscience, voodoo and BS is a
much better use of your time than fiddling around with silver cables and
superfluous loop instructions. :)

Why bother with anything ridiculously unnecessary as research, when you
can just rely on what the magazines and forum maestros tell you to
believe.
As one of our regular visitors would say "I have an inbox full of
messages agreeing with everything I say, so therefore it must be
true..... (although I can't possibly show you them as proof)" :rolleyes:



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[Julf]

Post by bonze
Why bother with anything ridiculously unnecessary as research, when you
can just rely on what the magazines and forum maestros tell you to
believe.
As one of our regular visitors would say "I have an inbox full of
messages agreeing with everything I say, so therefore it must be

What was that saying again, "don't read only what you believe"? :)



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[arnyk]

Post by Julf
If you are interested in understanding high-end audio, studying how and
why some people have a need to believe pseudoscience, voodoo and BS is a
much better use of your time than fiddling around with silver cables and
superfluous loop instructions. :)

+1 to the thought that audio forums can be instructive about human
nature, especially as related to how myths become accepted truths in
social circles.

I think that the basic currency of most forums is personal influence.


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