How would you spend this "windfall"? (DAC question)

[bzlrbi]

After a couple months of aggravation, I've finally convinced my
insurance company and their designated electronics repair folks that my
Transporter is not repairable. It got zapped in an electrical storm.
The unrepairable part is in the pre-amp section: it buzzes if connected
from the analog outputs to an integrated amp (which, somehow, took them
two months and three visits to my home for them to agree with me).

Anyway, the insurance company have already given me $1300 (ignoring the
deductible) "replacement cost" and will give me up to another $700 if I
spend up to $2000 to "replace" it (as you can still get an unopened unit
via Amazon for this price). The good news is that the digital part of
the Transporter seems AOK... it streams fine, and if you run it through
another DAC, no buzz at all. The repair company is going to return the
unit (once again).

So, I think I could buy an external DAC for up to $2000 and, basically,
get a $700 "discount" on it. If I don't spend more than $1300, I leave
that $700 "on the table".

What would you do?


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[TheOctavist]

Post by bzlrbi
After a couple months of aggravation, I've finally convinced my
insurance company and their designated electronics repair folks that my
Transporter is not repairable. It got zapped in an electrical storm.
The unrepairable part is in the pre-amp section: it buzzes if connected
from the analog outputs to an integrated amp (which, somehow, took them
two months and three visits to my home for them to agree with me).
Anyway, the insurance company have already given me $1300 (ignoring the
deductible) "replacement cost" and will give me up to another $700 if I
spend up to $2000 to "replace" it (as you can still get an unopened unit
via Amazon for this price). The good news is that the digital part of
the Transporter seems AOK... it streams fine, and if you run it through
another DAC, no buzz at all. The repair company is going to return the
unit (once again).
So, I think I could buy an external DAC for up to $2000 and, basically,
get a $700 "discount" on it. If I don't spend more than $1300, I leave
that $700 "on the table".
What would you do?

without hesitation.....I would buy the emotiva stealth DC-1. it is such
a great piece of kit. spend the extra dough buying music, and most
importantly...getting room acoustics sorted.



Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D

Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due
Venti>>Link Audio K100
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[garym]

I'd consider this. right price point for you to (1,999).

benchmark DAC 2
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac2-hgc



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[garym]

Post by garym
I'd consider this. right price point for you to (1,999).
benchmark DAC 2
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac2-hgc

then again, if you buy the emotiva for 700, you pocket $600 (from the
1300)....



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[Ikabob]

I have the Benchmark DAC1 USB which I have connected via an optical
cable and the sound is awesome....much better than without the DAC. It's
like having the live orchestra right in our listening room.
Is the DAC2 that much of an improvement over the DAC1? In sound quality?



Ikabob


Squeezebox Touch w/LMS;Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE
Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various
additional speakers).
Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3;
Services:Slacker;Sky.com; MOG;
Sirius.com;
Ipeng remote controller.
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[garym]

Post by Ikabob
I have the Benchmark DAC1 USB which I have connected via an optical
cable and the sound is awesome....much better than without the DAC. It's
like having the live orchestra right in our listening room.
Is the DAC2 that much of an improvement over the DAC1? In sound quality?

Very unlikely.



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[darrenyeats]

Right now I'd go DAC2 also (I own a DAC1 HDR).

Note it's best to do a bit of digital attenuation in the transport
feeding a DAC1 if your collection includes any dynamically brick-walled
recordings. This helps during upsampling, this goes for many upsampling
DACs I believe. The DAC2 has 3.5db of "DSP headroom" built-in for this
sort of thing.

This is 100% irrelevant to Ikabob, though, if he is listening to
classical!
Darren



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[JezA]

I used to own a DAC1 HDR, and I now own a DAC2 HGC. The DAC1 was very
good, but the DAC2 is, imo, a truly superb DAC. Beautiful, smooth,
incredibly resolved, sweet. You can get one on 30 days free trial (and a
DAC1 on the same deal), so you could make up your own mind. It also
supports native DSD conversion for any DSD downloads you might want, or
SACD rips if you can figure out how to do them. Plenty analogue and
digital inputs and asynch USB. There are a couple of variants $200
cheaper - the 'D' which is digital inputs only, and the 'L' which drops
the headphone outputs.


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[darrenyeats]

Jez,
The DAC2 (a) uses digital volume control in DAC mode and (b) in this
mode it has 3.5db DSP headroom to cater for brick-walled recordings.

I can mimic the above by (a) using digital volume control in my Touch
and setting the HDR to 'calibrated mode', bypassing the volume pot for
the DAC, and (b) keeping digi volume at or lower than 93. For me, this
has improved the sound subjectively. (From everything I've been able to
research, it should improve the -performance- objectively, however for
audibility I have no evidence to offer you like a properly controlled
test.)

Having said all that, I am willing to do swapsies with a DAC2 any time
... just let me know, chuckle!
Darren



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[JezA]

Post by darrenyeats
Jez,
The DAC2 (a) uses digital volume control in DAC mode and (b) in this
mode it has 3.5db DSP headroom to cater for brick-walled recordings.
I can mimic the above by (a) using digital volume control in my Touch
and setting the HDR to 'calibrated mode', bypassing the volume pot for
the DAC, and (b) keeping digi volume at or lower than 93. For me, this
has improved the sound subjectively. (From everything I've been able to
research, it should improve the -technical performance-, however for
audibility I have no evidence to offer you like a properly controlled
test.)
Having said all that, I am willing to do swapsies with a DAC2 any time
... just let me know, chuckle!
Darren

Darren, I'm pretty sure the improvement in sq I hear between the DAC2
and DAC1 has got absolutely nothing to do with the 3.5db of headroom the
DAC2 has .. most of my music is competently recorded classical and as
such isn't brick-walled. Checking peak levels with JRiver I can find
some climaxes hit 100% for a very brief moment, but my DAC2 is
significantly better all the time, not just at orchestral peaks. You
should try one!


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[darrenyeats]

Post by JezA
Darren, I'm pretty sure the improvement in sq I hear between the DAC2
and DAC1 has got absolutely nothing to do with the 3.5db of headroom the
DAC2 has .. most of my music is competently recorded classical and as
such isn't brick-walled. Checking peak levels with JRiver I can find
some climaxes hit 100% for a very brief moment, but my DAC2 is
significantly better all the time, not just at orchestral peaks. You
should try one!

I can believe that Jez. I think what's more significant is IMO using
calibrated mode (bypassing the physical pot) and using digital volume.
Overall this improves channel balance significantly and, from
comparative measurements I've seen at Ken Rockwell, distortion levels
are somewhat better too.

(The DSP headroom thing impacts only a tiny fraction of my collection
... in fact classical crescendos aren't even a problem because a good
recording usually peaks comfortably below 0db ... it's just modern pop
and electronic music which are an issue, and even then a minority, so
unless you listen to a lot of that it's a non-issue.)
Darren



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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SB Touch
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[darrenyeats]

PS: Of course the DAC2 measurably out-performs, by a clear margin, a
DAC1 even with the tweaks I have mentioned!



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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[bzlrbi]

OP here. My insurance company is still frittering around with my
damaged Transporter, i.e. I still don't have it back from the repair
company. Arggh.
That's step #1 in order to figure out what I'm going to do.

IF there was a feasible way to rip SACDs, I'd be all over either the
DAC2 or the Mytek. Otherwise, I think I'm going to save my cash and go
for the Schiit DAC, which would go for ~$450.


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[darrenyeats]

Post by JezA
Darren, I'm pretty sure the improvement in sq I hear between the DAC2
and DAC1 has got absolutely nothing to do with the 3.5db of headroom the
DAC2 has .. most of my music is competently recorded classical and as
such isn't brick-walled. Checking peak levels with JRiver I can find
some climaxes hit 100% for a very brief moment, but my DAC2 is
significantly better all the time, not just at orchestral peaks. You
should try one!

Jez,
Did you try the DAC1 with attenuators set to 0db? I've recently
discovered this absolutely transforms the sound.
Darren

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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[Mnyb]

Jez, Ikabob,
Did you try the DAC1 with attenuators set to 0db? I've recently
discovered this absolutely transforms the sound. (I find it both amazing
and disillusioning because Benchmark say the attenuators are transparent
... they are flipping well not!)
Darren
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

In what context ,the piont with gain adaption is the rest of the system
, so these things go together ? That's why their is an option to change
this in the first place ?



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[darrenyeats]

Post by Mnyb
In what context ,the piont with gain adaption is the rest of the system
, so these things go together ? That's why their is an option to change
this in the first place ?

I had the 30db attenuator in. I took it out (no attenuation) and
attenuate with extra 30db digitally.

In theory it should sound worse (gain mismatch, increased DAC noise). In
practice it sounds so much better in detail, imaging, warmth, natural
treble without the attenuators. So what I mean is they are changing the
sound in ways additional to just attenuation.

Once I figure out a way to get proper gain matching ... transparently
(maybe with another DAC) ... then it should get even better.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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[guidof]

Jez, Ikabob,
Did you try the DAC1 with attenuators set to 0db? I've recently
discovered this absolutely transforms the sound. (I find it both amazing
and disillusioning because Benchmark say the attenuators are transparent
... they are flipping well not!)
Darren
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

I'm not sure the issue is related to attenuator transparency. Recently,
I changed from 10dB to 20dB attenuator jumpers on my DAC2 and the result
has been an increase in clarity and lifelike quality of the sound. I
suspect the sound transformation you experienced (as well as the
improvement I noticed) are simply due to better synergy between the new
attenuator values and the amp specs.

But be that as it may, it seems clear that experimenting with different
attenuator values can yield an even better sound quality than the
factory setting.

Regards,

Guido F.



MUSIC ROOM:
Marantz TT 15S1, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge>Conrad Johnson Motif phono
preamp->
Vortexbox Appliance>Actiontec Router>DLink Bridge>Ethernet>Squeezebox
Touch/EDO>Benchmark 2 D DAC>DSPeaker Antimode Dual Core DRC/EQ+CIA PS>
Adcom GFP-750 preamp>Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp> Martin Logan SL3
speakers
REL T1 Sub
BEDROOM:
Squeezebox Touch (analog out)>Little Dot Mk III amp>AKG K701 headphones
TREADMILL:
iPad/SqueezePad>Noontec Zoro headphones
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[darrenyeats]

Recently, I changed from 10dB to 20dB attenuator jumpers on my DAC2 and
the result has been an increase in clarity and lifelike quality of the
sound.

Guido, that is the DAC2 ... perhaps it's been sorted.

I suspect the sound transformation you experienced (as well as the
improvement I noticed) are simply due to better synergy between the new
attenuator values and the amp specs.

Here are the output impedances of each setting (DAC1 HDR and DAC1 Pre
only - earlier models are different).
0db - 60 ohms
10db - 425 ohms
20db - 135 ohms
30db - 43 ohms

My impressions follow an entirely different pattern. Simply, the lower
the attenuator setting the better it sounds, best being 0db. So I don't
think what I'm hearing is amp synergy. What I am hearing is either
electrical crud, or it's the output stage performing better with more
headroom. Either way, my impressions do not square with what is
expected, I agree ... but they remain my impressions nevertheless.

Also, it appears I join what is a merry band of nut jobs on the internet
claiming the same thing about the DAC1 attenuators (not sure this is a
good thing for me personally!)

But be that as it may, it seems clear that experimenting with different
attenuator values can yield an even better sound quality than the
factory setting.

For sure.



Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

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[bzlrbi]

Post by garym
then again, if you buy the emotiva for 700, you pocket $600 (from the
1300)....

True. i have the $1300 in-hand already. Otherwise, that $1999 price
tag on the Benchmark is ideal. I'm also looking at the Mytek DSD DAC...
if I could figure out a way to rip my SACDs, I think I'd lean towards
that (or one of the other newfangled DSD DACs.


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[SBGK]

Post by bzlrbi
After a couple months of aggravation, I've finally convinced my
insurance company and their designated electronics repair folks that my
Transporter is not repairable. It got zapped in an electrical storm.
The unrepairable part is in the pre-amp section: it buzzes if connected
from the analog outputs to an integrated amp (which, somehow, took them
two months and three visits to my home for them to agree with me).
Anyway, the insurance company have already given me $1300 (ignoring the
deductible) "replacement cost" and will give me up to another $700 if I
spend up to $2000 to "replace" it (as you can still get an unopened unit
via Amazon for this price). The good news is that the digital part of
the Transporter seems AOK... it streams fine, and if you run it through
another DAC, no buzz at all. The repair company is going to return the
unit (once again).
So, I think I could buy an external DAC for up to $2000 and, basically,
get a $700 "discount" on it. If I don't spend more than $1300, I leave
that $700 "on the table".
What would you do?

I went from a dac1 to Nad M51 and the difference is quite large (suppose
it was double the price), you also get a world class digital preamp with
the Nad which is probably worth the money in itself + HDMI input which
sounds very good as well.



Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/
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[bzlrbi]

Post by SBGK
I went from a dac1 to Nad M51 and the difference is quite large (suppose
it was double the price), you also get a world class digital preamp with
the Nad which is probably worth the money in itself + HDMI input which
sounds very good as well.

Thanks. I'll investigate. This is still an "open" item on my claim.
For now, I have the Transporter back, and bought a refurbished Peachtree
Nova integrated amp, which allows me to connect digitally from the
Transporter (bypassing the damaged analog section). I also have the
option to go from my HD to the Peachtree via USB, albeit that is going
to be limited to 24/96.


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[darrenyeats]

SBGK, did you have attenuators at 0db with the DAC1? The reason I ask is
that I'm interested in the M51 and I want to calibrate.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 4



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