Which DAC to significantly upgrade the Transporter ?

[karlhungus]

Fellow Audiophiles and Transporter owners,

Being a happy Transporter owner for many years, I have recently upgraded
my system with a pair of Sonus Faber Liuto Towers and a recently
upgraded power amp as well (the much more confidential Doxa 72), driven
directly by the Transporter. This setup is wonderfully transparent and
pleasant-sounding, yet I feel there might be some more to gain from the
source. Given the pace of improvements to digital music and the age of
the Transporter, I think that adding a DAC might be the obvious upgrade
now. That leaves me with two questions :

1) How good is the Transporter DAC ? I know it was awesome when it came
out, but what would be an equivalent DAC today ? Something like the Rega
DAC or the Cambridge Audio DacMagic+ ?

2) Which DAC would be the best upgrade today ? How much do I need to
spend to get a significant rise in audio quality and which DAC would be
the best contender ? Would DACs like Wadia 121 or NAD M51 be real
upgrades ?

Many thanks for your contribution !

k


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[michael123]

Did you define the budget?

There are zillions of DACs today...


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[jcboy2128]

How about Weiss DAC2 ? However, since TP isn't Windows / Mac based, can
it support this DAC ?


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[michael123]

Post by jcboy2128
How about Weiss DAC2 ? However, since TP isn't Windows / Mac based, can
it support this DAC ?

Yes, it can.. through S/PDIF output
It indeed can upgrade the sound, although I recommend then 202.
But once you have 202, it is better to upgrade further by using firewire
with PC and through Squeeze out :)


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[jcboy2128]

Thanks Michael, can I use "AES" instead and anything I need to set in
squeezbox server ?
202 is a bit expensive although I like it so much !!


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[michael123]

Yes, sure.
I used AES/EBU from Transporter driving EMM & PerfectWave DAC.
EMM worked flawlessly although PWD has some sporadic sync issues (and I
think that the problems I had due to PWD and not Transporter).

Note though, again, that Weiss sounds the best through firewire.


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[Forrest]

I'm using a DEQX Express calibrated connected via AES/EBU to my
Transporter, and for me, there is no looking back.

My DEQX calibrated config:
DAC = 3 way crossover (bi-amp + stereo subs) + speaker correction + room
correction (below 150hz).


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[jcboy2128]

I just added an external DAC, Bel Canto DAC2.5 (very low jitter), to my
transporter, may I know if anything needs to be set in LMS, e.g. should
I set it to Asynchronous: External process is master? Thanks !!


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[MCG555]

Hi there,
I have ProAc Loudspeakers and from my memory I believe the way they
produce sound goes in the same direction as the Sonus Faber Luito...
Anyway, I added the Metrum Mini DAC Octave. I heard a couple of DACs - I
did not buy one before I heard the Octave because either the "Treble's"
where to "sharp" or the improvment not really there.
With the Octave the Soundstage get's wider and more involving... I'm
happy ;-)


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[congole]

Not seeing the budget and knowing the price tag Transporter had, I would
suggest having a look at
http://www.lavryengineering.com/products/hi-fi/da11.html
I believe the list price to be in the 1400 US$ range or so.
A friend of mine uses it in a pretty serious system with different
sources (including Touch); since my DAC also contains some of Lavry's
engineering embodiement (VTL, uses UltraAnalog module) - and I am very
happy with it - I would say there is consistency and continuity in
respect of sound.
Also, you get XLR / USB / RCA connections and even a headphones output.


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[gatzou]

In the same league, I use a Mytek Stereo192 with pleasing results.

All those Lavry / Weiss / Mytek converters are pretty neutral en
detailled.
In comparaison, the Transporter DAC sound slightly veiled / fatted

I use the Mytek to slave the Transporter thank's to the worldclock
input, making it a perfect transparent digital drive.
I believe this is doable also with the Weiss : the result should be
comparable (or better) than using Firewire/USB asynchronous


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[iwalker]

Post by gatzou
In the same league, I use a Mytek Stereo192 with pleasing results.
All those Lavry / Weiss / Mytek converters are pretty neutral en
detailled.
In comparaison, the Transporter DAC sound slightly veiled / fatted
I use the Mytek to slave the Transporter thank's to the worldclock
input, making it a perfect transparent digital drive.
I believe this is doable also with the Weiss : the result should be
comparable (or better) than using Firewire/USB asynchronous

I had never come across the Mytek 192 DAC, but it looks extremely well
engineered and compared with some 'audiophile' DACS, the price is
reasonable.
I am considering getting one on a 30 day trial.
It is interesting that you have had the best results when your TP is
slaved to the Mytek word clock output.
Has anyone else used Mytek in this way with a TP?
How do you control volume? I understand that the Mytek has both digital
and analogue volume control options which can be bypassed.


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[gatzou]

Post by iwalker
How do you control volume? I understand that the Mytek has both digital
and analogue volume control options which can be bypassed.

I am feeding a preamp, so volume control is bypassed both in the
transporter and the Mytek.

I had made some interresting comparisons between squeezebox Touch /
Transporter feeding the same Mytek DAC (through AES / SPDIF) :
- TP vs Touch => Mytek on external sync (TP not slaved) : TP perform a
little better (*)
- TP vs Touch => Mytek on external sync (TP not slaved) with upsampling
ON : TP and Touch give pretty much the same results.
(Mytek upsampling features is comparable to Benchmark ASRC, with good
jitter rejection)
- TP vs Touch => Mytek on external sync + upsampling on for the Touch,
and internal sync (no upsampling) for the TP (slaved) : TP perform
substantially better (*)

Unfortunately, the USB 2 async input of the Mytek is not working with
EDO Touch, this would have been a interesting comparison too...

(*) better = better details / accuracy / naturalness.


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[iwalker]

Post by gatzou
I am feeding a preamp, so volume control is bypassed both in the
transporter and the Mytek.
I had made some interresting comparisons between squeezebox Touch /
- TP vs Touch => Mytek on external sync (TP not slaved) : TP perform a
little better (*)
- TP vs Touch => Mytek on external sync (TP not slaved) with upsampling
ON : TP and Touch give pretty much the same results.
(Mytek upsampling features is comparable to Benchmark ASRC, with good
jitter rejection)
- TP vs Touch => Mytek on external sync + upsampling on for the Touch,
and internal sync (no upsampling) for the TP (slaved) : TP perform
substantially better (*)
Unfortunately, the USB 2 async input of the Mytek is not working with
EDO Touch, this would have been a interesting comparison too...
(*) better = better details / accuracy / naturalness.

Thank you for this response.
If I do get a Mytek it will be connected direct to Active ATC 100
speakers and will act as preamp. Have you tried your Mytek in 'preamp'
mode?
In this set up, I think there are 3 options for volume control- use the
TP digital volume, Mytek digital, or Mytek analogue.


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[gatzou]

Yes I have tried the Mytek in studio configuration with active
monitoring speaker.
Mytek Analogue should be the best option in this case.


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[iwalker]

Post by gatzou
Yes I have tried the Mytek in studio configuration with active
monitoring speaker.
Mytek Analogue should be the best option in this case.

Thank you.
The Mytek 192 appears to be competitively priced compared with other
professional DACs, such as Weiss 202 and Lynx HiLo.

All my music will be at a sample rate of 44.1 kHz so I assume that
setting up the word clock from Mytek is relatively straightforward.
When the TP is slaved to a word clock, does it affect internet radio? (
not that I use this much)


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[gatzou]

Web radios (and streaming services like spotify) play fine with the TP
slaved to the DAC (set at 44.1k).
Setting up the wrong samplerate will affect playback speed for local
music and radios as well (at 88.2k, radio plays twice as fast, with
rebuffering periods...)


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[Mnyb]

Some web radios work at 48k or 32k .


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[karlhungus]

Well my dear Transporter friends,

I finally found the grail after comparing several DACs (Wadia 121, Bel
Canto 2.5 and 3.5, NAD M51 and Hegel HD25) : the brand new Hegel HD25
(€2,000) brings the Transporter to another level on every aspect. It's
like I had a completely new system and I just love it :) Gotta run, lots
of music to rediscover !!

k


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[Julf]

Post by karlhungus
I finally found the grail after comparing several DACs (Wadia 121, Bel
Canto 2.5 and 3.5, NAD M51 and Hegel HD25) : the brand new Hegel HD25
(€2,000) brings the Transporter to another level on every aspect. It's
like I had a completely new system and I just love it :) Gotta run, lots
of music to rediscover !!

Any ABX logs? :)


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[Archimago]

Are there any good review of the Hegel with a complete set of
measurements ?
I find thier data a bit strange and atypical ?
Noise floor: Typically -145 dB
Distortion: Typical 0,0006%
...

Wow. Even Chord dares only advertise 140dB dynamic range [see the
Stereophile ad for the reference] :-)

Maybe it should be:

"Noise floor: Typically -145 dB*

Fine print:
* - Typically tested below absolute zero."


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[Mnyb]

Are there any good review of the Hegel with a complete set of
measurements ?

I find thier data a bit strange and atypical ?

Noise floor: Typically -145 dB
Distortion: Typical 0,0006%

This is not the typical signal to noise ratio figure used by other
manufacturers and it's usually thd+n vs signal .
What kind of distortion harmonic and or IM ?
-145dB is frankly to good to be true it indicates >24 bit practical
resolution in the analog domain ,not even the DAC chip manufacturers
claims that this is possible currently .( or do they ?) .
The usual response is that s/n below say the typically extremely good
approximately ~120dB that some achieve demands cryogenic cooling due to
thermal noise ? likely used in scientific lab equipment ? Would not a
passive 100Ohm resistor have more noise than -145dB just by itself .

And frequency response DC to 50kHz ( this is actually a good thing even
with 192 or 384 kHz material ) .

But it is good to see that Hegel tries to achieve technically solid
results ! Instead of the all to common high end aproach to use some very
unorthodox solution that's does not really work outside some beliefs
system ( call it anti science voodoo etc ).
I do like manufactures trying to push the boundaries of what's
technically possible .


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[iwalker]

Post by karlhungus
Well my dear Transporter friends,
I finally found the grail after comparing several DACs (Wadia 121, Bel
Canto 2.5 and 3.5, NAD M51 and Hegel HD25) : the brand new Hegel HD25
(€2,000) brings the Transporter to another level on every aspect. It's
like I had a completely new system and I just love it :) Gotta run, lots
of music to rediscover !!
k

Interesting. I had never heard of Hegel. Was the Mytek 192 among the
DACs used forcomparison?


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[jh901]

Post by karlhungus
Well my dear Transporter friends,
I finally found the grail after comparing several DACs (Wadia 121, Bel
Canto 2.5 and 3.5, NAD M51 and Hegel HD25) : the brand new Hegel HD25
(€2,000) brings the Transporter to another level on every aspect. It's
like I had a completely new system and I just love it :) Gotta run, lots
of music to rediscover !!
k

Exciting isn't it!

I don't know the Hegel at all, but I have found that the design of the
analog output stage and the power supply have a HUGE impact on the
resulting sound quality. A "Transporter 2" with a better analog out put
stage and power supply would be killer. Of course, there is always the
aftermarket mod option. I wanted an SACD player, so going the mod route
didn't make sense for me.

Anyhow, enjoy the music.


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[garym]

Post by jcboy2128
I just added an external DAC, Bel Canto DAC2.5 (very low jitter), to my
transporter, may I know if anything needs to be set in LMS, e.g. should
I set it to Asynchronous: External process is master? Thanks !!

re clock:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96421-Clock-in-for-Transporter&p=717210&viewfull=1#post717210


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[jcboy2128]

Post by garym
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96421-Clock-in-for-Transporter&p=717210&viewfull=1#post717210

Thanks garym, however, there is no clock output of the DAC.... :(


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